One TEAM indivisible
There is talk that once the majority of the Evans-Begin-Spitz are lured back to TEAM Burnaby a group of interested backers on the centre-right are looking to put together over $300,000 to finance the largest civic campaign in the 'burb's history.
Last civic election TEAM raised only half of that figure while spending themselves into debt in a figure quoted to be in the tens of thousands. This month's TEAM fundraiser is the lastest effort by the civic group to bury that debt.
Last civic election TEAM raised only half of that figure while spending themselves into debt in a figure quoted to be in the tens of thousands. This month's TEAM fundraiser is the lastest effort by the civic group to bury that debt.
posted by Robert Burnaby at 11:04 AM
126 Comments:
Sounds like someone is trying to buy off a few people.
The political hacks must be smacking their lips at the bigger money to be had.
A few Team Burnaby hacks were paid last time when they should have been just volunteers.
$300,000 in a civic campaign is way too much.
This fundraiser is to bury that debt?
Talk about stupid management on their part.
That debt should have been retired in 2006, and this fundraiser used to add to campaign funds.
That debt probably would have been reduced if Team Burnaby hadn't made the silly idea of paying practically everyone who spent more than 4 days on the campaign.
There are people who are dedicated enough to work to defeat the BCA and Corrigan, they won't ask for money.
This kind of talk has been around for at least a year or two already. It is probably bull intended only to spike interest in the upcoming fundraising dinner.
Assuming any money is raised at the dinner, it would be foolish to give any of it to pay off old debts. I doubt those selling the tickets would do so if they knew it was not going to help pay for their own campaign.
Basic fundamentals. Pay off the debt first then use what's left to start the campaign funding.
Debts are always needed to be paid off first. If those debts are owed to people, those people do and could come after what is owed.
You wouldn't buy a big flat screen TV without paying off that Visa debt first would you?
Going into a campaign with old debt is not a good idea.
Team Burnaby hasn't got its financial house in order? and they want to run the city finances?
Get real, get the debt paid or go home.
Agree. Basic business and finance fundamentals.
Pay the debts first. Then use the additional funds for the campaign, but be sure to keep quite a bit in the group's chequeing account (no paying for 'professionals' except to have the annual audit done).
Not paying that debt could end up being an election issue later on.
Team Burnaby wants to run the city but can't get its own financial affairs in order? Go figure.
CONGRATS to Peter Ladner as the new NPA mayoral candidate. Be careful, though. Your chances of winning the Vancouver mayoral seat will be greatly reduced should Vision Vcr choose either of their two "centrist" candidates - Gregor (Superman) Robertson or Alan DeGenova.
But Peter's own future is assured. He is the guy who put the spike into Sam Sullivan. Way to go!
And if Vancouver gets a Vision Vcr mayor, the electorate in Burnaby will be in more of a mood for a change of pace here. Too. (It's how the masses think, you know.)
It might be time for a certain someone to run for mayor again. (And I don't mean John Motiuk.)
Come on Lee! The Liberals are counting on you!
hey you TEAM obssessing bloggers, don't you have a life? or are you too much of a looser to have a life mate?
Still obsessing on sex, eh?
When can we get back to the real issues - like who's hotter - Lee Rankin or Derek Corrigan?
Who is hotter?
Ragini Rankin or Kathy Corrigan?
Blogger wrote:
"CONGRATS to Peter Ladner as the new NPA mayoral candidate."
I agree - congrats to PL. Democracy in action. Team Burnaby did the same thing. In 2005 Gary Begin thought he was a shoe-in for a nomination and did little to raise money or sell memberships. Result was he did not make it on the slate until someone else had to back out.
In 2008 he thought he would be grandfathered but when that option was removed, he split. Garth Evans did the same thing, and probably for the same reason - he would have to fight for a nomination he might lose. Some people just can't stand a democratic system. It's great to talk about it and it might be fine for other people but for themselves, only a sure thing will do.
Sure. Seems that a few members missed a few things at that Nomination meeting.
That someone had to back out because it was discovered that he was part of an online porn service.
That grandfather clause was removed for a reason.
and it wasn't to encourage new people to run.
But that aside, Team Burnaby shouldn't worry about Ladner. They should worry about retiring that debt and for Team Burnaby to become more acceptable for the serious voter looking for alternatives to the BCA.
But power and influence wins the day in Team Burnaby all the time.
That's the first I've heard about any porn service, but if you have any proof that would be a story! Please elaborate. Were you a regular or just an occasional visitor?
Was in the paper. Burnaby Now.
Do your homework.
Yeah. Right.
Interesting. Just had a look at the 2005 election results.
This Gary begin person got the second highest votes.
and people in Team Burnaby are scraping his face along?
Pathetic. Seems to me a person with that kind of vote count would be welcome in TB, but guess not since he voted on things that TB didn't like.
But TB has no business in telling the councillors how to vote.
What can a voter expect from a civic party that is slow to repay debts and just can't get along with people?
No one pushed out Gary, Garth or the Spitzer. So far as I've heard no one even wanted them to go. They all left on their own. Pretty hard to claim that the other 300-400 members in TB are to blame. They all seem to get along fine.
Simple fact, marginalized socialist party hopes the hypothetical "chaos" happening in TB will help push votes their way. All this opposition to TB unity sure works wonder.
With such a sizable donation already a possibility for TB unity, can money and power bring everyone together? Good question.
With unity already in sight, the next step is to nominate a unifying candidate, someone in the mold of an agent of change, such as Patty Sahota. Someone who has not only has organizational support but also held more prominent office and is much more representative of the general electorate.
Is Patti Sahota any relation to Moe Sahota? Would he run if Patti is to busy to run?
"With such a sizable donation already a possibility for TB unity, can money and power bring everyone together? Good question. "
Correct answer: No.
Good campaigning doesn't rely
on what is a possibility. It relies on what exists.
With unity already in sight, the next step is to nominate a unifying candidate, someone in the mold of an agent of change, such as Patty Sahota. Someone who has not only has organizational support but also held more prominent office and is much more representative of the general electorate."
Sure, and what about Lee Rankin, the favourite choice of the federal Liberals?
Neither of them have much to offer, but granted Rankin has longetivity on council, while Sahota has virtually nothing.
But neither will win against Corrigan.
"No one pushed out Gary, Garth or the Spitzer. So far as I've heard no one even wanted them to go. They all left on their own. Pretty hard to claim that the other 300-400 members in TB are to blame. They all seem to get along fine."
Sure. There are a few in Team Burnaby that didn't want Gary or Garth there after they voted on the financial aspects for the city,
thus voting against some kind of "agreement". That's what starting the idiotic mess.
But the problem is, that Team Burnaby Executive members don't get the idea that they cannot tell the council reps how to vote or not to vote.
Nothing exists similarly at the provincial or federal level.
If it did, I'm sure Harry, Richard and John would be voted out bu their respecitive Executive Boards since they support this idiotic carbon tax, and any provincial Liberal that is worthy anything of value would not support any new increased taxes.
Enjoy the 2.5 cent increase in your gas charges for something that does not really need to exist, kids.
"Is Patti Sahota any relation to Moe Sahota? Would he run if Patti is to busy to run?"
Moe Sahota is in Esquimalt. They are related in name.
Moe is NDP. Patti is miscellaneous right now and not worth the time of the serious voter.
A vote for Patti Sahota might as well be a vote for Corrigan.
"Good campaigning doesn't rely
on what is a possibility. It relies on what exists."
If there was no prospect of winning the next election why would Councilor Evans consider coming back. This is the thing about elections, just about anything is possible. It is just as possible to wipe out BCA in the next election as anything. And with money and power, The answer is likely be one you are will be surprised with.
"Sure, and what about Lee Rankin, the favourite choice of the federal Liberals?
Neither of them have much to offer, but granted Rankin has longetivity on council, while Sahota has virtually nothing.
But neither will win against Corrigan."
Lee Rankin's service on the council is very much appreciated in the community and there is no chance BCA is going to knock him off. But mayoral candidate needs to be unifying and it is obvious Lee will not be able to maximize out BCLIB voters unlike Patti Sahota, who too is a federal liberal, but enjoys support from both sides.
Visible minority makes up a large part of the city population. Hillary Clinton has changed people's perception and she has shown that women are just as able as white males who have dominated American politics. Patty Sahota's appeal to female and immigrant voters will make her the new Hillary Clinton of the city against an ailing mayor and bring about change.
"If there was no prospect of winning the next election why would Councilor Evans consider coming back."
Strange people do strange things.
Why would Team Burnaby do the dumb thing and let him back? Or why did they let this whole dumb thing start in the first place?
"This is the thing about elections, just about anything is possible. It is just as possible to wipe out BCA in the next election as anything."
With the right people. But Team Burnaby doesn't have that yet.
And with money and power, The answer is likely be one you are will be surprised with.
Goes either way. Money doesn't win elections, and power corrupts.
"Sure, and what about Lee Rankin, the favourite choice of the federal Liberals?
Neither of them have much to offer, but granted Rankin has longetivity on council, while Sahota has virtually nothing.
But neither will win against Corrigan."
Lee Rankin's service on the council is very much appreciated in the community and there is no chance BCA is going to knock him off."
They will try. But even if they don't he's one seat on council.
"But mayoral candidate needs to be unifying and it is obvious Lee will not be able to maximize out BCLIB voters unlike Patti Sahota, who too is a federal liberal, but enjoys support from both sides. "
Not really. What counts is if the voters will accept her, and given
her relatively invisibility in the community, most people wouldn't vote for her. The BCA will also go after her.
"Visible minority makes up a large part of the city population."
Doesn't really matter. A voter is stupid to vote on the basis of a minority candidate, and where does that place Lee Rankin should he seek the mayor's chair?
"Hillary Clinton has changed people's perception and she has shown that women are just as able as white males who have dominated American politics."
True for U.S. politics. In Canada,
that's already been done through
Alexa McDonough (NDP), Kim Campbell (PC) and Shelia Copps (LIB), plus British Columbia has
had many leaders in politics.
Patty Sahota's appeal to female and immigrant voters will make her the new Hillary Clinton of the city against an ailing mayor and bring about change."
Stupid comparison. Patti Sahota is not anywhere near what Hillary Clinton is, and the two are not really comparable.
Differnet politics, different political direction, and different political environment.
Don't close your doors to any of these wonderful possiblities. Patty Sahota is totally hot - just what we need in Burnaby politics.
She may be hot for you, but sex isn't what Burnaby voters are wanting in a Mayor's candidate.
The last thing Burnaby voters need to do is to choose a Mayor's candidate solely on the basis of one Team Burnaby's idea of a hot babe.
Who said anything about Team Burnaby?
She will be the mayoral nominee for the new Independent Civic Association set up by Garth Evans and Gary Begin.
Unlikely.
The Association doesn't exist, except in your own mind.
If you're going to choose, choose on the basis of what is inside between the ears, not what is between the arms or legs.
"True for U.S. politics. In Canada,
that's already been done through
Alexa McDonough (NDP), Kim Campbell (PC) and Shelia Copps (LIB), plus British Columbia has
had many leaders in politics."
None of the people you have mentioned have 1% of the influence that Nancy Pelosi has around the globe. But the one that has truly transformed the women's image is none other than Hillary Clinton herself.
Patti Sahota continues to be the much more marketable candidate that no only motivates politically minded voters to come out in support from all sides, she may motivate the not so typical voters to come out in support, especially women and young voters who believe a bit of glamour in the city hall will not hurt. Burnaby may not be able to produce another cabinet minister for the next few years. With experience and popularity, it will be hard for Mayor Corrigan who will easily trail her in the image race.
"The Association doesn't exist, except in your own mind."
Burnaby Now - Wednesday edition of last week.
Do your homework.
"None of the people you have mentioned have 1% of the influence that Nancy Pelosi has around the globe. But the one that has truly transformed the women's image is none other than Hillary Clinton herself. "
Applicable to U.S. politics. Not Canadian or even local. Pelosi
has class. You're also forgetting
that Canadian politics is quite different than U.S. politics even at the international level, so the two are not comparable.
Patti Sahota continues to be the much more marketable candidate that no only motivates politically minded voters to come out in support from all sides, she may motivate the not so typical voters to come out in support, especially women and young voters who believe a bit of glamour in the city hall will not hurt.
Find that hard beleive,since she has not been publicily visible since her defeat in 2005 and wasn't much of anything even with her last minute Cabinet appoinment which hardly became much.
With her low quality track record in politics, she wouldn't be the best person to market in Burnaby civic politics. Best to find an alternative.
"Burnaby may not be able to produce another cabinet minister for the next few years."
True. But Cabinet Ministers are not a prerequisite for the Mayor's chair.
"With experience and popularity, it will be hard for Mayor Corrigan who will easily trail her in the image race"
Should be in your mind, not "image race race" but 'tail race'.
""The Association doesn't exist, except in your own mind."
Burnaby Now - Wednesday edition of last week.
Do your homework."
Don't need to. A civic elector group in sense of being a real party with members doesn't nessesarily have to exist. Garth is wrong about needing 50 members.
He does require 50 signatures, but those can be from city voters who assent to his nomination, not nessesarily explicity those who are members of a new electoral party.
He and the others can run as Independents as their own group (jsut as Surrey First has done) without the burden of membership rolls.
In other words this "Association" can exist as a registered Society with the basic qualifier of Board, members (overseeers) and does not need to have a roll of members.
Surrey First is operating this way with Dianne Watts.
Surrey First does not have a membership based existence as a civic party.
"Find that hard beleive,since she has not been publicily visible since her defeat in 2005 and wasn't much of anything even with her last minute Cabinet appoinment which hardly became much."
Find that hard to believe. Even though "last minute appointment" of Kim Campbell may not mean much, Patty Sahota and Kim Campbell did whatever they can for the betterment of the state they were responsible for. In a way, Patty is lucky that she does not have to step down as the cabinet minister to run against Mayor Corrigan, otherwise it would have been "unfair".
So is it time for a mayor whose image will be much more representative of the general electorate? Certainly. $300000 should be invested onto Patty Sahota and her BCLIB comrades who can get her elected, rather than Lee Rankin who has not the track record of Honorable Patty Sahota, other than the so called "longevity on the council". Patty Sahota is more qualified than Greg Robertson who now polls far ahead of other mayoral candidates. And her image will be even more appealing. There is really no better qualified and suitable candidate for change than Patty Sahota.
"Find that hard to believe. Even though "last minute appointment" of Kim Campbell may not mean much, Patty Sahota and Kim Campbell did whatever they can for the betterment of the state they were responsible for."
Kim had been a Cabinet Minister for much longer than Patti Sahota
was and Kim had a longer term as MP than Sahota as MLA.
In a way, Patty is lucky that she does not have to step down as the cabinet minister to run against Mayor Corrigan, otherwise it would have been "unfair"."
Placing Patti Sahota in civic politics would be unfair to the voters.
If her campaign manager and the campaign were smart she would have been re-elected which she should have been.
So is it time for a mayor whose image will be much more representative of the general electorate? Certainly. $300000 should be invested onto Patty Sahota and her BCLIB comrades who can get her elected, rather than Lee Rankin who has not the track record of Honorable Patty Sahota, other than the so called "longevity on the council".
That so-called $300000 is not exclusively for the Mayoralty candidate, it is for the campaign represented by all candidates.
But it would be foolish to set that kind of money into a civic campaign since $100000 can result
in a win if the money is spent properly, but money does not win campaigns. Seems like overkill since what would $300,000 get that $100,000 would not? More advertising? Hopefuly certainly not more paid people.
Patty Sahota is more qualified than Greg Robertson who now polls far ahead of other mayoral candidates.
Not true since the commonality of each is that each being (or was) MLA. What 'qualifiers' would Sahota have that Robertson does not?
And her image will be even more appealing. There is really no better qualified and suitable candidate for change than Patty Sahota.
There are alot more suitable candidates for change than someone like Patti Sahota who hasn't been
visible in the City.
A start would be Lee Rankin (with all of his faults and connections to the federal Liberals).
You have won me over. Patty Sahota for Mayor!
Oh phuleeez...
If it is Patti Sahota, then we all might as well look forward to Mayor Derek Corrigan's Inaugural Speech in December after the November civic election.
Let us get back to the essential question, when a person was appointed with a cabinet position, does it count as experience? So we ask does it count that Kim Campbell became the Prime Minister? You mentioned about her influence as a female leader and I too believe that should count as experience. And no one should take that away, even though she was not re-elected. So let us be consistent here.
"Not true since the commonality of each is that each being (or was) MLA. What 'qualifiers' would Sahota have that Robertson does not?"
Many things, cabinet assignment for one, and others. No matter, Sahota is just as qualified. And while BCA supporters would like to Lee Rankin running for mayor, and I agree that was what forced Garth Evans out of the party, either way, we can all admit TB need a candidate of change. In terms of image and competence, Lee Rankin is not at the level with Patty Sahota. And when you add the organizational support that will completely remove TB's disadvantage at the grass root level, her candidacy expand TB's vote base to include new young and female voters against a already marginalized BCA. $300,000, can do wonders, and there is no question Patty Sahota can elect both herself and rest of the TB councilors with that kind of money.
"Let us get back to the essential question, when a person was appointed with a cabinet position, does it count as experience?"
No. It's just a line on the biography nothing else, unless that person has done something substaintial that appealed to the voters.
"So we ask does it count that Kim Campbell became the Prime Minister? "
Nope. She didn't last long.
"You mentioned about her influence as a female leader and I too believe that should count as experience. "
It would if she (Sahota) was a leader but she wasn't. She was mostly a follower (and mostly the receipient of political goodies).
And no one should take that away, even though she was not re-elected. So let us be consistent here.
Let's also keep to the correct environment too. Some Sahota supporters have used the U.S. as examples, but they don't apply much equivalency in Canadian politics other than there have been girl nominees and girl Congressional leaders. But there have been girl MLAs and girl MPs and Minsters (also don't forget
Margaret Mitchell (MP), and everyone's favourite Liberal Hedy Fry.
"Not true since the commonality of each is that each being (or was) MLA. What 'qualifiers' would Sahota have that Robertson does not?"
Many things, cabinet assignment for one, and others. No matter, Sahota is just as qualified. And while BCA supporters would like to Lee Rankin running for mayor, and I agree that was what forced Garth Evans out of the party, either way, we can all admit TB need a candidate of change. In terms of image and competence, Lee Rankin is not at the level with Patty Sahota.
Well if you want to get into image, I'd rather see Patti Sahota in nothing but a white thong than Lee Rankin.
In terms of competence I'd rather go for Lee Rankin than Patti Sahota.
And when you add the organizational support that will completely remove TB's disadvantage at the grass root level, her candidacy expand TB's vote base to include new young and female voters against a already marginalized BCA. $300,000, can do wonders, and there is no question Patty Sahota can elect both herself and rest of the TB councilors with that kind of money.
Sure especially when a large apportioon of that money is used to buy 'professional people'right?
A campaign can spend wisely, or it can spend a huge amount.
There's been campaigns where very little was spent and the candidate won, and other campaigns where a huge amount of money was spent and the candidate lost.
"Well if you want to get into image, I'd rather see Patti Sahota in nothing but a white thong than Lee Rankin.""Let's also keep to the correct environment too. Some Sahota supporters have used the U.S. as examples, but they don't apply much equivalency in Canadian politics other than there have been girl nominees and girl Congressional leaders. But there have been girl MLAs and girl MPs and Minsters (also don't forget
Margaret Mitchell (MP), and everyone's favourite Liberal Hedy Fry."
Firstly, I am baffled, baffled, by the obvious sexist comment you have made. Luckily, Hillary Clinton has made your comment irrelevant. She continues to be the one that has transformed American politics for women, despite that there were other female leaders before her. And people claim Gregor Robertson is competent enough to be a mayor when Patti Sahota who has served previously as a cabinet minister is not simply unfair to the female candidate. Image wise, competence wise, Patty Sahota deserves to be the next mayor of Burnaby.
$300000 is more than enough to unseat Mayor and many of the BCA loyalists on the other side. And Patty and her BCLIB MLA friends can very well find others to raise that "ceiling". I wonder how many seats TB can win with half a million dollars.
Firstly, I am baffled, baffled, by the obvious sexist comment you have made. Luckily, Hillary Clinton has made your comment irrelevant. She continues to be the one that has transformed American politics for women, despite that there were other female leaders before her.
Well she has transformed American politics, but hasn't done anything in Canada.
"And people claim Gregor Robertson is competent enough to be a mayor when Patti Sahota who has served previously as a cabinet minister is not simply unfair to the female candidate.
Gregor has run a successful small business Happy Planet. Patti Sahota has mostly been a 'consultant' and spent alot of her time being within the BC Liberal environment. Big difference.
Image wise, competence wise, Patty Sahota deserves to be the next mayor of Burnaby.
She does not. In terms of competence I'd say Lee Rankin since
he has alot of experience with Burnaby Council, Patti does not.
$300000 is more than enough to unseat Mayor and many of the BCA loyalists on the other side.
Not really. It's actually excessive since $300,000 wouldn't buy much more than $100,000 could to the goal of electoral success. The extra $200,000 would be spent on frivious things. Better campaigns spend wisely and not excessively.
And Patty and her BCLIB MLA friends can very well find others to raise that "ceiling".
What for?
I wonder how many seats TB can win with half a million dollars.
Probably about the same number of seats as spending $85,000 to $100,000 as they did last time.
It woould be better to have five to six seats with a $100,000 campaign with money left over than to end up with zero to three seats after spending $300,000.
Say what you like, the fact is simple, Patti Sahota is as qualified as Gregory Robertson. Gregory's background as a small business owner is honorable, but he was not elected because of that. One of the most powerful men in BC is Kevin Falcon and just look at the background he had. And to try to paint a Patti as an incompetent female candidate was exactly what needs to be changed. And she will certainly be the Hillary Clinton of this city and change people's perception of a young female candidate. There are dozens of city councilors, past or current, but there is only one that can claim the prominence of Patty Sahota, and that is herself as a candidate. And BCA supporters would like to see TB spend nothing on the next campaign. But Patty Sahota and her friends simply have ability to raise half a million and spend to run against a powerful governing party and establish a strong hold onto power for a very long time.
"Say what you like, the fact is simple, Patti Sahota is as qualified as Gregory Robertson. "
No she's not. Gregor has a profile,
Patti hasn't been well known since she lost the Edmonds riding.
"Gregory's background as a small business owner is honorable, but he was not elected because of that. One of the most powerful men in BC is Kevin Falcon and just look at the background he had."
True. But Kevin has had alot of luck to get where he is now. He knows how to play the game and plays it well.
"And to try to paint a Patti as an incompetent female candidate was exactly what needs to be changed."
If she had won Burnaby Edmonds she would be painted as an incompentent
candidate. Whether she is female or male doesn't matter. The fact is she lost a riding which should have been won.
And she will certainly be the Hillary Clinton of this city and change people's perception of a young female candidate.
Not a bright comparison there Einstein. In what way is Sahota equivalent to Hillary Clinton? Different country, different environment and different party.
" There are dozens of city councilors, past or current, but there is only one that can claim the prominence of Patty Sahota, and that is herself as a candidate."
Doesn't make much sense. She isn't prominent by any means. She's not visible in the public's view.
"And BCA supporters would like to see TB spend nothing on the next campaign."
Where was that stated in the public arena?
"But Patty Sahota and her friends simply have ability to raise half a million and spend to run against a powerful governing party and establish a strong hold onto power for a very long time."
Yeah right as if half a million bucks is going to do it.
It will mean wasted money if Team Burnaby doesn't get smart and cure all differences so that everyone (including Garth and Gary and Barbara Spitz) can chase after a position on Council without having to think about the half assed minded power hungry people within Team Burnaby that want to control everything.
A half million dollar campaign means spending on frivilous things and does not guarantee election success by any means. Lower your campaign spending by $490,000 and then go from there. That would be more decent than insane levels of excessive spending.
Any spending over $120,000 in a Burnaby civic campaign is overkill.
The BCA has won big on alot less money spent.
%120000 on TB is overkill? If you look over to next door and see the scale of campaign both sides are launching, then it is an idea teams in Buranby should play as the second largest city west of Fraser Valley. Look at the scale of a full scale marketing and distribution campaign, look at the full size of campaign team, and look at the full scale of community reach out network. $100,000 can easily be burned on campaign materials. And $200,000 distributed between 8 council candidates and 1 mayoral candidate not to mention the paid campaign staff and friends from BCLIB MLA's, they burn fast. The mayoral campaign itself against the sitting incumbent will cost at least quarter of a million dollars at least to have an authentic shot at unseating Mayor Corrigan who will be funded opposite to TB by BCNDP. And the remaining funds should be distributed amongst council candidates who should be ready to ride on the wave of change. With half a million, it will be alot easier to make people believe that Team Burnaby IS ready to form the next government in the city.
%120000 on TB is overkill?"
Reread what was written. Campaign spending over $120,000 is overkill.
"If you look over to next door and see the scale of campaign both sides are launching, then it is an idea teams in Buranby should play as the second largest city west of Fraser Valley."
Vancouver is far more densly populated than Burnaby, and has a different political climate. Plus there are more positions to run for than in Burnaby.
Huge campaign spending in Vancouver does not nessesarily work in Burnaby.
You're obviously drooling over the Big Money that is a part of the NPA and Vision/COPE campaigns.
"Look at the scale of a full scale marketing and distribution campaign, look at the full size of campaign team, and look at the full scale of community reach out network. $100,000 can easily be burned on campaign materials."
Distribution is done by bulk mail, two to three bulk mail excercises doesn't cost a huge amount of money, plus there are volunteers going door to door.
Plus Vancouver also has elected Parks Board candidates which adds to the campaign marketing cost. Burnaby does not.
There's also an excess of spending on campaign personnel compared to past camapaigns whcih were successful having people who were not paid, but dedicated to the task.
"And $200,000 distributed between 8 council candidates and 1 mayoral candidate not to mention the paid campaign staff and friends from BCLIB MLA's, they burn fast.
Campaign staff that is paid only needs to be the Office Manager, the Campaign Manager and no one else. Additional money spent on literature pieces (three), signs
(much reduced since Burnaby does not allow signs on public property such as aertial medians and shoulders, plus stationary, the campaign office and rental equipment and supplies. Then there's newsppaer ad reservations (about six in total), and three bulk mail distributions (one at the start, another in the middle and the third two threee days before election day). Doesn't add up to much more than $120,000.
Attendance at all candidates meetings is free.
There's volunteers who will donate their time and energy only if they are asked. They will donate their time and vehicles for rides to the polls so there's very little spending required there.
Get a geeky kid or a professional who likes to play around with HTML and java to do the campaign website
and if he is not in need of money,
he'll do it for free. So there's money saved there that could be used for advertising pieces or newspaper ads.
Remove the paid staff (except for the Office Manager who needs to be there every day and the Campaign Manager (pay him or her an honourarium after the election, not before), and save the money for
literature.
Smart spending helps a campaign.
"The mayoral campaign itself against the sitting incumbent will cost at least quarter of a million dollars at least to have an authentic shot at unseating Mayor Corrigan who will be funded opposite to TB by BCNDP."
Corrigan will be funded by the BCNDP in a small amount compared to his total, much of his funding comes from supporting taxpayers. Read the disclosure reporting available at city hall.
It would be silly to assume that a mayoralty campaign would in itself cost $250,000 when under the usual system of things, the mayor plus council campaigns are run together in terms of expenses. There is nothing that is unique to the mayor's campaign that requires a sepeperate $250,000 campaign.
"And the remaining funds should be distributed amongst council candidates who should be ready to ride on the wave of change."
Well the way it is now, all council, school and the Mayoralty candidate share the entire pool of campaign money, everyone is on the same candidate propaganda, cards and each gets an allotment of their own candidate cards to give out (but have the entire group on one side). Easy to do, and much more cheaper than a huge library of individual candidate pieces.
"With half a million, it will be alot easier to make people believe that Team Burnaby IS ready to form the next government in the city.
No it won't. It would be alot easier on the voters if Team Burnaby got smart and ended this junky environment they are in and get off their collective behinds, get Garth, Gary and Barb back and come up with something that the voters can actually vote for rather than an excessively financed campaign that has little to offer the voter but much to the paid hacks.
Quite a few dedicated volunteers also would help too.
Oh yea and also get that debt retired first.
Remember, money does not win campaigns.
Campaigns are won when they are run smartly with candidates that the voters will go for.
With Patty Sahota's candidacy, it will also be interesting how the half million dollars will be able to put funding over four different BCLIB political machines. With four sets of machines working at four different Burnaby ridings and with such funding, Patty Sahota will also be able to venture into the new voting blocs in various immigrant communities, and especially young and female voters. How do you put the machine into use and creatively market the entire team. With very much of the funding coming from, understablly those pro-Gateway, and other group closely associated with Gordon Campbell, I am certain that they will be willing to fund Patty's campaign without a heartbeat once our city's only cabinet minister in the past years seize the nomination. Her qualification and appeals have been questioned and one can hardly find any substance in criticism from BCA supporters.
"Campaigns are won when they are run smartly with candidates that the voters will go for."
Very much so. If half a million is spent effectively, BCA will have no presence in any of the offices mentioned. BCNDP's ideology has put them at a landslide disadvantage against BCLIB, it will be stupid NOT to seize on this vast difference in funding.
Team Buranby if they want to have any prospect of winning needs to have their trustees, councilors and mayoral candidate out-campaign BCA no matter it is through personal campaigning effort, party campaigning effort, or issue ads. And with enough funding to bring the campaign to the local tv platform and have modern distribution campaign high-tech materials will very much bring the desired segments of new groups of voters TB will need to expand to contain for its victory. BCA certainly wants to keep a low-budget on their side and hope others follow so they can continue to dominate the civic scene. But I also hope they can stand the heat in the kitchen. Can BCA handle opponents who have three times their funding? If they cant, then maybe it is time for them to hand over the power they have enjoyed for this long. TB is not obligated to be playing by BCA's rules.
"With Patty Sahota's candidacy, it will also be interesting how the half million dollars will be able to put funding over four different BCLIB political machines."
Not very efficient campaigning.
Use one (Team Burnaby and its resources). Makes for better campaigning than four going all over the place.
With four sets of machines working at four different Burnaby ridings and with such funding, Patty Sahota will also be able to venture into the new voting blocs in various immigrant communities, and especially young and female voters. "
She (that is assuming she wins a nomination) could easily do that with one cmapaign structure. It's been successfully done in the past (both non NDP and NDP).
"How do you put the machine into use and creatively market the entire team. With very much of the funding coming from, understablly those pro-Gateway, and other group closely associated with Gordon Campbell, I am certain that they will be willing to fund Patty's campaign without a heartbeat once our city's only cabinet minister in the past years seize the nomination."
Joan Sawicki (NDP) was a Cabinet Minister and also Madam Speaker.
"Her qualification and appeals have been questioned and one can hardly find any substance in criticism from BCA supporters."
Not nessesarily from BCA supporters, chump.
It would be better for Garth, Barb and for that matter Harry Bloy to come back to TEAM because even though Lee may have had a Federal Liberal past most of his supporters and current Executive members are Federal Conservatives from the President, Raymond Leung, down to the Directors.
I think Lee has severed his ties with the Federal Liberals and became, using an over used political catch phrase, Non-Partisan. They seem to be more of a Right of Centre Coalition now.
"Very much so. If half a million is spent effectively, BCA will have no presence in any of the offices mentioned."
False. You're assuming that half a million will win the campaign for the Team Burnaby side. That is not guaranteed.
"BCNDP's ideology has put them at a landslide disadvantage against BCLIB, it will be stupid NOT to seize on this vast difference in funding. "
It would be stupid to assume that the BCNDP's idealology has anything to do with what amount of campaign money they receive.
"eam Buranby if they want to have any prospect of winning needs to have their trustees, councilors and mayoral candidate out-campaign BCA no matter it is through personal campaigning effort, party campaigning effort, or issue ads."
True and they can start by being smart. Eliminate the debt, and be a much better improved organization than they are now, elimate the power plays by a few people, and get Garth, Gary and Barbara back in without any of the childish hatred directed towards them and be a party that wants to be government not one that they think they deserve to be government.
"And with enough funding to bring the campaign to the local tv platform and have modern distribution campaign high-tech materials will very much bring the desired segments of new groups of voters TB will need to expand to contain for its victory."
TV ads will be lost in the clutter of ads from Vancouver. Not worth the expense. as for High tech, the only thing that is needed is a website. Nothing more on that side, other than a means of visitors sending in emails requesting a ride to the poll.
"BCA certainly wants to keep a low-budget on their side and hope others follow so they can continue to dominate the civic scene."
Wrong. They know how to spend smartly and win.
" But I also hope they can stand the heat in the kitchen."
Can Team Burnaby? Apparently not.
"Can BCA handle opponents who have three times their funding?"
They have in the past with good results.
"If they cant, then maybe it is time for them to hand over the power they have enjoyed for this long. TB is not obligated to be playing by BCA's rules."
Team Burnaby is really not obligated to anything.
If they want to win, forget this mantra of Big Money winning campaigns and stick to the fundamentals, and that is providing high quality candidates
(including the three incumbents plus Ms.Spitz who almost made it last time) who actually mean something, good workable positive policies and a smart campaign run by dedicated volunteers.
Get all that together and Team Burnaby is headed in the right direction.
But will the voters see a sound workable Team Burnaby that looks like it has earned their being city government?
With comments from Team Burnaby in this blog and from what has been reported in the paper, that's doubtful.
At this point it would be better for the smart voter to pick and choose individual candidates whereever they come from who they figure would best serve the interest of the city rather than the interests of the BC Liberals or Gordon Campbell.
"It would be better for Garth, Barb and for that matter Harry Bloy to come back to TEAM because even though Lee may have had a Federal Liberal past most of his supporters and current Executive members are Federal Conservatives from the President, Raymond Leung, down to the Directors. "
Raymond Leung is a former Reformer, but was also a federal Liberal longer than he was a Reformer. He's not active within the Conservatives.
As for Harry Bloy coming back to TEAM, why bother with him?
I think Lee has severed his ties with the Federal Liberals and became, using an over used political catch phrase, Non-Partisan. They seem to be more of a Right of Centre Coalition now."
Junk would be better term to use.
Lee Rankin is federal Liberal. Everyone who follows Burnaby politics knows that.
"Team Burnaby is really not obligated to anything.
If they want to win, forget this mantra of Big Money winning campaigns and stick to the fundamentals, and that is providing high quality candidates"
Quality candidates are not in short supply from TB side.
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/election2005/candidates/pdf/financing/mayor/Sullivan_Sam.pdf
Vancouver mayor elect received half a million and spent more than quarter of a million dollars on his campaign, on his election campaign alone, and that is already taking into consideration he is a widely known figure. $300000 is only barely enough in Burnaby's election we all know better than that and that is not to consider the expenses to be spent on council candidates and school board candidates which will also be costing since vast majority of them will not enjoy the advantage of being incumbents.
So can these BCLIB big names raise half a million from both BCLIB coffers and TB coffers, even with great overlaps? It will be simple as the close association between BCNDP and BCA is very much prohibitive to large sum donations from developers or others alike.
There are enough political ads on youtube for Patti Sahota campaign staff to know what an effective tv ad should be and how to frame the right issues, which will be easy, against the incumbent. Example, Mayor Corrigan is against Gateway which will relieve the congestion pressure apparent in the city, I support a sensible solution. Under the mayor's watch, the computer project has cost taxpayers extra millions of dollars, I support fiscal responsibility. The mayor has mandated his party supporters to endorse NDP's socialist ideologies by requiring them to carry BCNDP membership, I ask for support for those who want change no matter which party membership you carry. Please make Patty Sahota your sensible choice on election day. And by budgeting these ads and running it with TB's tag days before the election out media outlets such as CKNW or Global BC will not only attract new bloc voters from voting for the attractive choice for mayor, it will also focus the media spotlight from a lifeless Vancouver mayoral campaign to a image savvy candidate vs. a powerful mayor incumbent. And that will cost at least a quarter of a million dollars, but will put TB almost at a deafening advantage which Gordon Campbell supporters can easily fund.
Given that nature of council candidate prospects, it is almost a requirement to have a candidate who is NOT at retirement age. It will be rare to find someone who appeals to young voters and at the same already have the organizational support to make the soft support into hard votes. Even this large sum of money may put Mayor Corrigan's fund-raising, I hope they dont take this hit too hard given that they have been given cakewalk for far too long. To beat TB at all money, image, and organizational front is like beat BCNDP at their own game. And trust me, half a million dollars can buy a lot of nice things, especially for a girl like Patty Sahota who enjoys some glamor from now and then.
"Quality candidates are not in short supply from TB side. "
They are unless the voters are convinced otherwise. Too bad Team Burnaby had to go the childish route and flush out Gary and Garth.
Both could have been a good foundation for the next civic election, since Gary was the second highest vote getter, and Garth did well in his first try.
"http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/election2005/candidates/pdf/financing/mayor/Sullivan_Sam.pdf
Vancouver mayor elect received half a million and spent more than quarter of a million dollars on his campaign, on his election campaign alone, and that is already taking into consideration he is a widely known figure. "
Not really a comparision since Vancouver candidates have usually spent alot more than their suburban counterparts, plus the NPA and COPE (Vision) have spent quite a bit of money on TV ads which are very expensive.
"$300000 is only barely enough in Burnaby's election we all know better than that and that is not to consider the expenses to be spent on council candidates and school board candidates which will also be costing since vast majority of them will not enjoy the advantage of being incumbents. "
$300,000 is far too much for a suburban area of Burnaby.
Team Burnaby could have enjoyed having alot of incumbents if it was smart last election, but obviously were not.
"So can these BCLIB big names raise half a million from both BCLIB coffers and TB coffers, even with great overlaps? It will be simple as the close association between BCNDP and BCA is very much prohibitive to large sum donations from developers or others alike. "
Not exactly, since some Burnaby developers can and often do donate
equitable amounts of money to both the BCA and non-BCA candidate groups.
"There are enough political ads on youtube for Patti Sahota campaign staff to know what an effective tv ad should be and how to frame the right issues, which will be easy, against the incumbent."
Many of those are U.S. ads, and TV ads are expensive to produce and to place. To be useful, a political ad should be placed between 5.30 PM and 10.00 PM weeknights. A Team Burnaby ad showing between breaks of Dr.Phil
isn't going to be worth the effort.
"Example, Mayor Corrigan is against Gateway which will relieve the congestion pressure apparent in the city, I support a sensible solution. Under the mayor's watch, the computer project has cost taxpayers extra millions of dollars, I support fiscal responsibility."
Good for you. You can start by ensuring Team Burnaby retires their debt. A recent audit which was reported in the paper noted the system was the way to go, despite the problems with it.
"The mayor has mandated his party supporters to endorse NDP's socialist ideologies by requiring them to carry BCNDP membership."
It's not the mayor's mandate. It is a clause in their constitution just as there was a grandfather clause in Team Burnaby's constitution noting incumbents can keep their nominations, but was somehow removed.
It's also similar to a clause in the federal Liberal constitution that allows the federal Liberal leader to directly appoint candidates to represent the federal Liberal Party in elections.
The commonality of these three is that each is set into their respective constitutions.
"I ask for support for those who want change no matter which party membership you carry. Please make Patty Sahota your sensible choice on election day."
Not on your best day, pal.
She'll have to prove that she is worthy of support. Being able to raise $300,000 to have starry eyed political hacks get paid excessive
amounts of money under the guise of being 'professional' isn't going to do it.
"And by budgeting these ads and running it with TB's tag days before the election out media outlets such as CKNW or Global BC will not only attract new bloc voters from voting for the attractive choice for mayor, it will also focus the media spotlight from a lifeless Vancouver mayoral campaign to a image savvy candidate vs. a powerful mayor incumbent. "
I doubt that. Vancouver is headed for a butting of the heads contest
now that Sam is out. The only thing remaining is who Vision/COPE
decides to nominate.
Image and looks are not everything.
Jsut ask Gordon Campbell.
"And that will cost at least a quarter of a million dollars, but will put TB almost at a deafening advantage which Gordon Campbell supporters can easily fund. "
Why not have those Gordon Campbell supporters just give a smaller amount in the expectation of a win instead?
"Given that nature of council candidate prospects, it is almost a requirement to have a candidate who is NOT at retirement age."
Bullshit. I'd vote for the older experienced person over one who hasn't done anything except smile
any day.
Besides, Harry Bloy is getting up there in years, does that mean he's out as MLA too?
"It will be rare to find someone who appeals to young voters and at the same already have the organizational support to make the soft support into hard votes. "
If they look around long enough there are many out there that voters no matter what their age is can vote for.
Anyone who votes on the basis of the age of the candidate is a fool.
Look towards what the candidate will offer, not how old he or she is.
"Even this large sum of money may put Mayor Corrigan's fund-raising, I hope they dont take this hit too hard given that they have been given cakewalk for far too long.
There is no 'hit'. It's a fantasy of yours actually.
"To beat TB at all money, image, and organizational front is like beat BCNDP at their own game."
Sorry bud. When it comes to organizing the NDP has that down to a science. Team Burnaby's organizational ability has been for the most part a joke, but they are improving, but slowly.
" And trust me, half a million dollars can buy a lot of nice things, especially for a girl like Patty Sahota who enjoys some glamor from now and then."
Yeah right, like lipstick and stinky perfume?
Get real.
Go vote for Lee Rankin. It's the best thing to save Burnaby from the NDP.
What is all this talk about Team Burnaby's debt? Team Burnaby doesn't have any debt, do they?
Lee has not been involved in Federal Liberal Politics for awhile and just ask Mr. Burnaby Liberal Gurdev Dhillon how much he loves Lee.
As for the Executive, if you think you are so brilliant, research who else is on the Executive other than Raymond. They are either respectable Presidents or members of the Federal Conservatives in other Ridings. Lee is a friend of the Conservatives.
There is one President of the Conservative (from Burnaby Douglas) Anna Teranna was a previous MP in Vancouver East for the Liberals.
Lee is not considered a friend of the Conservatives. How could he be?
He is a federal Liberal, despite the legendary conflict between him and Gurdev Dhillion.
Unless Lee has joined the Rhinoceros Party or something else
that isn't NDP.
Raymond Leung was a long time Liberal before he took off to the Reform Party.
He left the Liberals because he was upset that the Liberals appointed someone instead of going through a nomination meeting.
...then he went onto run for the Canadian Alliance in Richmond in 2000 and lost to Joe Peschelido and when the Party transformed into the Conservatives he's now become the Co-Chair for the Conservative Chinese Action Unit with Tung Chan. Recruiting Ronald Leung, Patrick Wong and Others for the Conservatives.
(Story in the Sing Tao Chinese Newspaper)
The Tories are persuading three "prominent" Chinese community leaders to run in Vancouver in the next federal election, according to Raymond Leung of the Conservative Party Association's Chinese Action unit.
According to Leung, these potential candidates do not necessarily have political experience but all have made "very strong contributions" to the Chinese community. Leung is certain that Tories will have some fresh Chinese faces in the coming election.
He said so far the response from these three people "is very positive". But he declined to say any names.
Leung added that Chinese candidates are needed to reflect the voice of so many Chinese voters living in the Vancouver area for the Conservatives.
"...then he went onto run for the Canadian Alliance in Richmond in 2000 and lost to Joe Peschelido and when the Party transformed into the Conservatives he's now become the Co-Chair for the Conservative Chinese Action Unit with Tung Chan. Recruiting Ronald Leung, Patrick Wong and Others for the Conservatives."
Lost to Joe Pepsi-Cola. Too bad there.
(Story in the Sing Tao Chinese Newspaper)
"The Tories are persuading three "prominent" Chinese community leaders to run in Vancouver in the next federal election, according to Raymond Leung of the Conservative Party Association's Chinese Action unit."
Well good for them. But in the end it will be the voters who will decide who wins. There's been many Chinese Cdns who have run, and got bumped off.
"According to Leung, these potential candidates do not necessarily have political experience but all have made "very strong contributions" to the Chinese community."
Not bad, but what about for those voters who are not Chinese Cdns?
"Leung is certain that Tories will have some fresh Chinese faces in the coming election."
Possible, but most of the ridings have already nominated so the
statement is a bit out of date.
"He said so far the response from these three people "is very positive". But he declined to say any names."
Of course. The old game.
"Leung added that Chinese candidates are needed to reflect the voice of so many Chinese voters living in the Vancouver area for the Conservatives."
If they would just vote Conservative no matter if the candidate is white, brown, black or
purple then things would get ahead.
Just as long as the voters vote Blue and not Red or Orange, or worse Green.
Are we through with this or not? You guys are stating obvious facts but the nature of the party supporters do not affect voters' decision, it is the electibility of the candidates that is significant in the campaign. Half a million dollars pushed Sam Sullivan to his seat in city hall. None of the BCMLA is even close to Patti Sahota in terms of tv image. Mayor Corrigan loses that race by far. And organizational support BCLIB has already shown its strength and TB has other federal machine at its disposal against BCA. I suggest with the prohibitive advantage TB already has on BCA, they can easily seize it and half a million dollars will buy, despite the sexist comments, many nice things, most valuable of which are 8 seats on the council, 6 seats at school board, and 1 seat in the city hall,which cost about about a quarter of a million dollars.
"What is all this talk about Team Burnaby's debt? Team Burnaby doesn't have any debt, do they?"
Most likely that entire debt has not been retired. Otherwise why the fundraiser (the candidates have not been nominated yet so it is a foolish statement to say that funs raiseed by potential candidates will go to their respective campaigns when they haven't been nominated and unless Team Burnaby has changed its ways, usually fundraised money goes into an account that is used by all nominated candidates.
Beter hope that none of the remaining debt is owed to people that will go after it through the courts.
if Team Burnaby is playing denial games with their debt, how is it that they would be good money managers handling city money at City Hall?
Best thing to do after that fundraiser is retire the entire remaining debt and publicly announce that being done so the voters know that Team Burnaby is in itself being fiscally responsible.
Otherwise the debt may be forgotten by Team Burnaby, but not by those who are entited to be repaid.
"What is all this talk about Team Burnaby's debt? Team Burnaby doesn't have any debt, do they?"
TB has no debt. Whatever outstanding election bills they had were paid off long ago. This keeps coming up only because blogging BCA supporter thinks he knows something.
Not really a comparision since Vancouver candidates have usually spent alot more than their suburban counterparts, plus the NPA and COPE (Vision) have spent quite a bit of money on TV ads which are very expensive.
The NPA cumulatively spent over $1.5m in 2005, but not one penny on television ads. Even the best funded civic party in the history of BC.
Vision ran infrequent ads during prime time news on BCTV, and yes, that did cost them a hell of a lot.
COPE, with less than half a million to play with, didn't have any television. Its worth noting though that COPE in 2005 didn't have the funds to be competitive, despite having many times more money than any Burnaby group.
So what if Burnaby is a suburb? Its half the size of Vancouver. Why is it outrageous to expect a slate of council, school board and mayoral candidates to spend, say, a third of the amount that is spent in Vancouver? Or even a quarter?
"Are we through with this or not? You guys are stating obvious facts but the nature of the party supporters do not affect voters' decision, it is the electibility of the candidates that is significant in the campaign."
Exactly true. the ordinary voter is not going to pay attention to what the party supporter hopes for or wants.
"Half a million dollars pushed Sam Sullivan to his seat in city hall."
Not exclusively but it helped in some ways. Vancouver People were looking for change after Larry The Mayor left for his cushy job in the Senate.
"None of the BCMLA is even close to Patti Sahota in terms of tv image."
Don't know about that. Richard Lee has looks.
"Mayor Corrigan loses that race by far."
He's not supposed to be one that makes the cover of GQ. He is hard to look at, but he wasn't elected
on his looks.
Consequently, it doesn't matter to the voter if Patti Sahota is material for Chatelaine.
"And organizational support BCLIB has already shown its strength and TB has other federal machine at its disposal against BCA."
The federal Liberals? They are a lost cause.
I suggest with the prohibitive advantage TB already has on BCA, they can easily seize it and half a million dollars will buy, despite the sexist comments, many nice things, most valuable of which are 8 seats on the council, 6 seats at school board, and 1 seat in the city hall,which cost about about a quarter of a million dollars.
You're dreaming in technicolour.
Money is not a guarantee of electoral win.
Most likely what you would end up with is a huge grossly overstuffed
campaign with overpaid hacks and excess only to find out on election night that perhaps only two to three non BCA people (one to two TB) were elected, and no new Mayor.
The Patti Sahota branded customised bottled water, the bumper stickers, the Patti Sahota
coffee mug and overpaid political hacks aren't going to pass muster with the voters.
So what if Burnaby is a suburb? Its half the size of Vancouver. Why is it outrageous to expect a slate of council, school board and mayoral candidates to spend, say, a third of the amount that is spent in Vancouver? Or even a quarter?
Why be competitive in terms of campaign funding?
Best thing to do is to win with while keeping expenses down.
Basic business fundamentals. Run your business but keep your expenses down, and budget wisely.
Same should happen to campaigns.
They are not a lottery for hacks to get paid big money for the big screen TV or Caribbean Cruise or to finance that degree in Political Science.
The better campaigns are well financed, but do not spend a huge amount of money on excess.
They budget wisely, know how much the literature and the three mail drops, and the six newspaper ads are, plus the campaign office and supplies and simply go with that.
Three mail drops to Burnaby's 80,000 households would cost....?
If you think an unaddressed double sided black and white flyer can persuade anyone, I have a bridge to sell you.
"The NPA cumulatively spent over $1.5m in 2005, but not one penny on television ads. Even the best funded civic party in the history of BC. "
The NPA might have spent money on TV ads since they spent a total of
$560,637.
They also dispensed $218,257 to
campaign worker compensation.
The two figures together are
$778.894 which is more than half the budget right there.
That $218,257 can easily be cut to just $35,000 saving the campaign about $183,257 which doesn't need to be spent here in Burnaby.
So that coveted $300,000 figure is
now drawn down to about $140,000
in an equivalent figure. The advertising would be less in Burnaby (lesser distribution and no need for expensive advertising,
and the sign volume would go down since Burnaby does not allow signs on public property), so that coveted figure would be brought down to around $130,000.
In other words if people are really dedicated to bringing positive change to Burnaby they can do it as volunteers without bringing positive change to their chequing accounts.
I'm sure there are other things that the NPA spent money on that wouldn't need to be spent in a good Burnaby campaign that results in a win.
"Three mail drops to Burnaby's 80,000 households would cost....?
If you think an unaddressed double sided black and white flyer can persuade anyone, I have a bridge to sell you."
Cost dimes. I'e done many of those things in the past. But you make a good point.
Budget for the unaddressed black and white flyer two to three times,
and take the money that would otherwise go to paid people (reduce the paid positions to just two) and put it where it belongs.
To pay for your black and white bulk mail item..
To pay for the
Agree there.
The bulk mail item isn't itself going to win many votes, but gets the message out.
Getting the message out to the voters is much better for the campaign than getting the cheques out to the paid hacks.
Team Burnaby would send out flyers to all 80,000 households?
Including households which are in predominantly NDP areas?
Someone certainly needs to review their fundamentals.
Hopefully that person isn't going to get paid or if he or she does,
let's h0pe it is deserving, such
as $8.00 an hour with a 20 hour maximum per week.
No one working 20 hours a week should be paid on a political campaign.
Except for the Campaign manager and the Office Manager (who should be paid at the end of the campaign with leftover funds), no one should be paid on a political campaign.
If you're dedicated to the candidate, volunteer to help the candidate, not your chequing or savings account.
The June 16 Team fundraiser is definitely turning into the social event of the year.
Maybe Patty Sahota will get her picture on the front page of the paper!!!!!
Good for Patty. She deserves it. Are they(TB) having a fundraiser on June 16 as well?
"The June 16 Team fundraiser is definitely turning into the social event of the year. "
For those who can't find anything better to do than to pay out $95.00
and stand around trying to look important.
"Maybe Patty Sahota will get her picture on the front page of the paper!!!!!"
If she does, so what?
Probably will be a slow news day
and the picture will be filler.
It will probably be the first time she is visible since losing an easy re-election in 2005.
WHy anyone would want her to run as Mayor is beyond comprehension.
She's lost a key election and hasn't been in the public's mind since.
Besides, in a contest between her and Lee Rankin for the Mayor's nomination, she wouldn't make it.
The strangest thing will be she will attract political hacks hoping for a political goodie if she wins, or surround her self with
paid political hacks during the election, each one thinking they are more important than the volunteers working to get Team Burnaby candidates elected.
"The strangest thing will be she will attract political hacks hoping for a political goodie if she wins, or surround her self with paid political hacks during the election, each one thinking they are more important than the volunteers working to get Team Burnaby candidates elected."
Funny, in terms of image and attractiveness, Lee Rankin loses by a landslide, the only chance Lee can win is if BCA members decide to take over the party and appoint Lee as Mayor Corrigan's opponent, neither of whom looks anywhere close to Patti the Beauty on tv. The kind of beats like instinct prevalent in BCA is already apparent and there is no reason to doub the Mayor will be any different than that. Those people who want to get Mayor Corrigan who too has the same BCA beast instinct re-elected will oppose Patti the Beauty's nomination. And TB supporters are certainly much more intelligent than BCA members on this blog, in addition to their coffers.
So Patti lost her stage around three years ago, but so what? People still remember and she continues to be much younger/appealing than Mayor Corrigan. Before her opponent got elected, where was Raj? Where is he? Right, trying to build up its connection within NDP community so when the times comes he will just use that machine to take out the incumbent, and no matter how Patti was active in the community, she was no match to NDP machine. Let us admit that civic issues other than Get Moving BC, will not motivate enough volunteers to come out while the socialist ideology of BCA will continue to resonate with far-left grassroot organizational support. The coffers that TB has which can easily exceed half million will have BCA's political machine look no match, already likely putting its fundraisers to shame. Let us admit it, Mayor Corrigan vs. Patti Sahota, typical apolitical voters will be more inclined to vote for Patti Sahota.
Where does all this pie-in-the-sky talk of $500,000 come from. TB spent about $105,000 in 2002 and $170,000 in 2005. It is not that easy to raise money. If TB is able to raise $225k they will be doing well.
Yes, I do think it is difficult to raise funds. That is why half a million has to be invested into the image candidate. $100,000 and $1,000,000 is not going to make a difference for Lee Rankin. But $100,000 and $1,000,000 will make an exponential difference for Patti Sahota how has far more marketability.
"Funny, in terms of image and attractiveness, Lee Rankin loses by a landslide, the only chance Lee can win is if BCA members decide to take over the party and appoint Lee as Mayor Corrigan's opponent, neither of whom looks anywhere close to Patti the Beauty on tv."
This isn't the Miss Canada pageant.
It's politics. Beauty has no value to the voters when it comes to politicians. Jut ask Hedy Fry.
"The kind of beats like instinct prevalent in BCA is already apparent and there is no reason to doub the Mayor will be any different than that. Those people who want to get Mayor Corrigan who too has the same BCA beast instinct re-elected will oppose Patti the Beauty's nomination."
Quite a few smart team Burnaby people will oppose Sahota's nomination.
Face facts. She's not Mayor material.
"And TB supporters are certainly much more intelligent than BCA members on this blog, in addition to their coffers. "
Don't forget some voters who are not part of either who write into the blog, Sunshine ;-)
So Patti lost her stage around three years ago, but so what? People still remember and she continues to be much younger/appealing than Mayor Corrigan."
By looks, Patti wouldn't crack a mirror by looking into it, like Corrigan would, but the goal isn't
who looks good in a skirt and blouse it's who can do the job.
"Before her opponent got elected, where was Raj? Where is he? Right, trying to build up its connection within NDP community so when the times comes he will just use that machine to take out the incumbent, and no matter how Patti was active in the community, she was no match to NDP machine."
Sure she was. She simply had bad campaign management and didn't take care of the riding.
"Let us admit that civic issues other than Get Moving BC, will not motivate enough volunteers to come out while the socialist ideology of BCA will continue to resonate with far-left grassroot organizational support."
Get Moving BC is just a front for some old political hack to get paid money. The key person behind it originally was paid money to get donations for it. That's the word on the street.
"The coffers that TB has which can easily exceed half million will have BCA's political machine look no match, already likely putting its fundraisers to shame."
Don't count on that. The BCA is very good in raising money, and besides one person had already rightly said money doesnot win campaigns.
"Let us admit it, Mayor Corrigan vs. Patti Sahota, typical apolitical voters will be more inclined to vote for Patti Sahota."
In that scenario. Corrigan wins.
No question.
It's also probably that when she looks in a mirror in the morning,
Patti Sahota can cause it to crack.
"Where does all this pie-in-the-sky talk of $500,000 come from. TB spent about $105,000 in 2002 and $170,000 in 2005. It is not that easy to raise money. If TB is able to raise $225k they will be doing well."
Means nothing. What is the indication that TB has done well is to get rid of this nonsense regarding Garth, Gary and Barb and bring those damned people back,everyone plays right and stops being idiots to one another and realise the primary target is not Garth, Gary or Barb but rather the BCA Mayor and council.
But TB has gotten silly in their antics, and that results in the second highest vote getter and two other good people leaving in disgust.
TB should get rid of their BC Liberal like arrogance and self-importance and be something that the voters can support rather than earning political points with Gordon Campbell.
and go easy on what is expected to be a good amount of money for the campaign. Money does not win campaigns and there certainly not going to be a win with highly paid hacks who don't know what they are doing.
TB has certainly missed alot of opportuity to be good.
Best route to go now is to pick and choose individual candiates no matter what political interest they represent.
"Quite a few smart team Burnaby people will oppose Sahota's nomination. Face facts. She's not Mayor material."
Neither was MLA Robertson 3 years aog, and neither was Sam Sullivan. I dont think there needs to be any debate as to which coffer is deeper. And there is also no debate which candidate can raise the most money. It is about competence (former provincial cabinet minister stepping down), image (Beauty vs. non-Beauty), & organizational support (BCLIB machine vs. BCNDP machine). In all fronts, including money, Patti Sahota represents someone who can easily take BCA support fully out in the next election. And money will easily win campaigns if TB can play its prohibitive advantage right.
Neither was MLA Robertson 3 years aog, and neither was Sam Sullivan."
Big difference. Both had public profile (Sam was on Council for a long time before seeking the Mayor's chair in 2005, and Robertson was first elected in 2005 and had profile with his Happy Planet Company.
Patti has had neither since her loss in 2005.
I dont think there needs to be any debate as to which coffer is deeper. And there is also no debate which candidate can raise the most money. It is about competence (former provincial cabinet minister stepping down),"
Stepping down? She got defeated,
erased. Rubbed out. Finitoed. Deleted.
"image (Beauty vs. non-Beauty), & organizational support (BCLIB machine vs. BCNDP machine). In all fronts, including money, Patti Sahota represents someone who can easily take BCA support fully out in the next election."
Yeah right, and Lee Rankin couldn't? Wouldn't bet the rent on that one. Lee has been around quite some time.
"And money will easily win campaigns if TB can play its prohibitive advantage right."
Er you mean it's prohibitive disadvantage don't you?
TB is hardly in a position to slide into an easy win.
"Yeah right, and Lee Rankin couldn't? Wouldn't bet the rent on that one. Lee has been around quite some time."
All this BCA wants Lee Rankin to win and voters with common sense want Patti Sahota is more than enough. Patti was defeated, that is why she "stepped down", not voluntarily of course. She was far more prominent than Robertson, and say what you want, but the voters know better. The experience she had in her legislative far outweights Robertson who has not even served a full term but ready to step down voluntarily to run for mayor. BCA and its unfortunate socialist connection to BCNDP has put it at a distinct disadvantage no matter it is with the voters perception with BCNDP since 2001 or the direct challenge of BCLIB machine in the city. It will be very easy for the voters and BCLIB operatives to unite behind Patti Sahota and win this contest of Beauty vs. Beast, one who has the look the other who has the firepower. That unfortunately will be very hard to achieve if Lee Rankin decides to run instead of becoming the new "comptroller" as the chair of the finance committee. But general election wise, TB desperately needs an image candidate with a well finance marketing plan to beat BCA by a landslide.
"All this BCA wants Lee Rankin to win and voters with common sense want Patti Sahota is more than enough. Patti was defeated, that is why she "stepped down", not voluntarily of course."
"Stepped down"?? get real. She was
defeated. Politicians when they are defeated in an election do not
'step down'.
"She was far more prominent than Robertson, and say what you want, but the voters know better."
In terms of a parallel time line between the two, there's not a really a correct comparison since
Robertson was not an MLA at the time that Sahota was.
"The experience she had in her legislative far outweights Robertson who has not even served a full term but ready to step down voluntarily to run for mayor."
That is his choice. It is common for some politicians to step down
and seek something else. What Robertson is doing is far from new.
"BCA and its unfortunate socialist connection to BCNDP has put it at a distinct disadvantage no matter it is with the voters perception with BCNDP since 2001"
That actualy goes back to the early 1980's in an informal sense and back to the late 1980's.
Can't see how it is a distinct disadvantage since the BCA regardless of their NDP affliations has had majorities since 1989.
"or the direct challenge of BCLIB machine in the city."
What machine? It's just BC Liberal
supporters who want Sahota.
It will be very easy for the voters and BCLIB operatives to unite behind Patti Sahota and win this contest of Beauty vs. Beast, one who has the look the other who has the firepower"
The so-called operatives can do what they want, but BC Liberal
members will ultimately vote which way they want.
. That unfortunately will be very hard to achieve if Lee Rankin decides to run instead of becoming the new "comptroller" as the chair of the finance committee."
That's not going to happen if the BCA wins a majority.
But general election wise, TB desperately needs an image candidate with a well finance marketing plan to beat BCA by a landslide.
TB desperately needs to get rid of their idiotic current position, get the two incumbents back, get rid of the childish opposition to them and become something that the serious voter (other than blindly loyal BC Liberal types) can support, and come up with positive workable goals.
The perpetual saying the BCA is the NDP wore out a long time ago.
Blogger wrote:
"The perpetual saying the BCA is the NDP wore out a long time ago."
I doubt it very much. The BCA connection to the NDP is getting harder and harder for them to overcome. Their winning margins in the last election were razor thin. This rime around they will take another pounding on the same issue. Frankly, in an election, nothing is ever "worn out", as the blogger says. It might be to the blogger himself, because he follows these things. But to the average voter it is always new and relevant.
The BCA/NDP will continue to get their solid left-leaning support in th enext civic election. However what could be "worn out" is a Mayor and an administration that has governed Burnaby for twenty years.
doubt it very much. The BCA connection to the NDP is getting harder and harder for them to overcome."
There actually isn't much to 'overcome' since to the ordinary voter, provincial affiliations does matter all that much, and the BCA has not denied or tried to cover their NDP affliations, so it is a minor issue.
"Their winning margins in the last election were razor thin."
Compared to previous elections they were weak. They have been weak before and afterwards have become strong.
" This rime around they will take another pounding on the same issue."
and that isssue is:
Frankly, in an election, nothing is ever "worn out", as the blogger says. It might be to the blogger himself, because he follows these things. But to the average voter it is always new and relevant."
Not particularly since there are new 'average voters' every election and while it was said it was worn out in 1993, the BCA managed to get majorities since then.
"The BCA/NDP will continue to get their solid left-leaning support in th enext civic election."
No question, but they also attract voters from outside the traditional left wing environment.
"However what could be "worn out" is a Mayor and an administration that has governed Burnaby for twenty years."
Possible, but unless TB comes up with something that the voters, not Gordon Campbell, the BC Liberals or the TB membership wants then there will be progressive change.
Right now TB doesn't offer anything except for members who are lovesick over Patti Sahota, a group that really doesn't know where it is going, and currently, lacklustre potential candidates, and one incumbent who can't decide whether he wants to seek the Mayor's chair or another term on council.
Plus TB threw away two good incumbents who could have helped the fortunes but those who decide the candidates obviouly don't want them.
Pathetic.
True.
In fact with this idiotic carbon tax that is Gordon Campbell's pet project, does TB really want to be part or linked into the opposition of that carbon tax?
If I got to vote on that question, I'd say no, because strong opposition to something like that could drag down whatever gains TB has in terms of being linked the BC Liberals which is minimal at best right now.
"Plus TB threw away two good incumbents who could have helped the fortunes but those who decide the candidates obviouly don't want them."
Again, they left on their own merits. But I guess BCA supporters never get their facts straight, especially when it comes to TB affairs. They left and they have decided to come back, and there will be funds available to elect everyone, that is the entire point after all.
As for the stance on the carbon tax issue, I do not think it is didifcult to decide on which stance where it stands. So it comes down to this, does TB want to link itself to BCLIB whose leader has announced a series of fundings to the city, though not appreciated by everyone (apparently not Lee Rankin)? Why would TB endanger its own coffers by disassociating itself away from TB. BCLIB MLA's and Patti Sahota have their own respective machine at hand and deep bipartisan coffers ready to donate against BCA. With half a million at its disposal, BCA can claim TB has not legitimacy, well, until they get outspent of course on a candidate who is going to pale on paper when placed next to Patti Sahota.
Here's a serious question.
What did Patty Sahota do in cabinet?
Mike DeJong!
har har
Again, they left on their own merits.
But I guess BCA supporters never get their facts straight, especially when it comes to TB affairs. They left and they have decided to come back, and there will be funds available to elect everyone, that is the entire point after all. "
Has nothing to do with the NDP or BCA. It was reported with comments from them and Leung as to why they left. It was hardly that TB was trying to retain them
If they can be welcomed back and welcomed back without silly opposition from members of them being there and duly nominated then TB would have made up quite a bit of distance towards that destination of a TB majority.
But it will be interesting to see what if any silliness continues from some members in that regard.
"As for the stance on the carbon tax issue, I do not think it is didifcult to decide on which stance where it stands. So it comes down to this, does TB want to link itself to BCLIB whose leader has announced a series of fundings to the city, though not appreciated by everyone (apparently not Lee Rankin)?"
Not much rocket science there, since the "announcement" was orginally made in mid May 2005 with nothing achieved other than a photo op with the Premier and two MLAs.
" Why would TB endanger its own coffers by disassociating itself away from TB."
How can an organization possibily disassociate itself from itself as
was written directly above??
"BCLIB MLA's and Patti Sahota have their own respective machine at hand and deep bipartisan coffers ready to donate against BCA."
If Patti Sahota has this so-called
wonderous machine, where was it in 2005 when she really needed it?
"With half a million at its disposal, BCA can claim TB has not legitimacy, well, until they get outspent of course on a candidate who is going to pale on paper when placed next to Patti Sahota."
First, Patti Sahota has not been nominated yet, and second I doubt the money has been actually committed, and third, there's nothing out there in the public domain in regards to Patti Sahota that us voters in the public arena
can see.
Put something out there that we can see and then decide if we figure it is good enough to mark suppport for her and Team Burnaby.
Blogger wrote:
"If they can be welcomed back and welcomed back without silly opposition from members of them being there and duly nominated then TB would have made up quite a bit of distance towards that destination of a TB majority."
Gary Begin and Garth Evans are as able as anyone to ask for and fill out a membership form. But that is not the end of it. Mr Leung has suggested that they will need to give some sort of reasons why they felt it necessary to leave (via the News Conference route). And perhaps someone can give a reason why this is not a very good question to ask? While we are asking a few questions, perhaps it would also be reasonable for at least some members of TEAM to wonder why these two should receive their support to be on TEAM slate for November? Or do you feel that Garth's and Gary's actions should be rewarded with an automatic placement on the slate?
Everyone knows they only want back because an election looms and they are finally starting to see how hard it is to run as independents. Everyone also knows that they will again stick it to TB (should they be re-elected).
Gary Begin came second in overall votes on council. That is a pretty good number. If he is so sure it was all because of his name recognition and sterling reputation, then why bother with any organization. He needs to run as an independent and then he can truly say he is beholden to no one. He can say he is just doing what is best for the people of Burnaby in whatever position he takes. It is a very enviable spot - but it starts with his running and winning as an independent beholden to no one.
For Garth things are a lot trickier. He only won by 60votes last time. He needs Team a whole lot more than they need him.
Gary Begin and Garth Evans are as able as anyone to ask for and fill out a membership form. But that is not the end of it. Mr Leung has suggested that they will need to give some sort of reasons why they felt it necessary to leave (via the News Conference route). And perhaps someone can give a reason why this is not a very good question to ask? While we are asking a few questions, perhaps it would also be reasonable for at least some members of TEAM to wonder why these two should receive their support to be on TEAM slate for November? Or do you feel that Garth's and Gary's actions should be rewarded with an automatic placement on the slate?"
Well it was originally set to a grandfather clause for one, and there's also the fact that Begin despite errors in judgement did receive the second highest amount of votes.
Garth went from zero to 60 which isn't too bad either.
Leung should dump the silly notion of trying to justify their reasons for wanting to return.
It's just silly politics on his and Team Burnaby's part.
Everyone knows they only want back because an election looms and they are finally starting to see how hard it is to run as independents.
Not exactly true. They do realise the difficulty in running as independents, but it is silly for Team Burnaby to just throw away a second highest vote getter and someone who is well known in the community.
"Everyone also knows that they will again stick it to TB (should they be re-elected).
Most voters could probably stick it to TB.
Gary Begin came second in overall votes on council. That is a pretty good number. If he is so sure it was all because of his name recognition and sterling reputation, then why bother with any organization. He needs to run as an independent and then he can truly say he is beholden to no one. He can say he is just doing what is best for the people of Burnaby in whatever position he takes. It is a very enviable spot - but it starts with his running and winning as an independent beholden to no one.
When a person is elected to Council they are not 'beholden' to no one, just as MKLA's are not beholden to those who volunteer to elect them.
You'll find quite a few BC Liberal supporters won't be too supportive of this carbon tax when it bites.
For Garth things are a lot trickier. He only won by 60votes last time. He needs Team a whole lot more than they need him.
The better solution would be to end this entire silliness, bring them both back and everyone works together to oppose the BCA and Corrigan rather than continue this silly internal conflict.
"The better solution would be to end this entire silliness, bring them both back and everyone works together to oppose the BCA and Corrigan rather than continue this silly internal conflict."
Agreed. Money and power I am sure will unify the party candidate. Once they have decided on a candidate who can win by a landslide on Mayor Corrigan, they should be ready release start their spending frenzy, and there is so much money in the city hall that the Mayor can use to advertise his positions.
Blogger wrote:
"..Leung should dump the silly notion of trying to justify their reasons for wanting to return."
I suppose in your world one person can simply decide these matters for a whole organisation without any complaints or opposition. In a real world organisation, a President like Raymond Leung must get a clear agreement from the membership on something as important as the public disloyalty of Gary Begin and Garth Evans - and what to do about it if they want to return.
What he has said already seems to make good sense (i.e. that they can return if they want to, but that they should be prepared to answer a few questions). In any event, there is no hurry. TB hasn't even given an indication of when the nomination date will be and there is still no solid indication of who the mayoral candidate will be. Maybe the fairest way to decide the matter would be to hold a referendum in the TB membership on whether or not to accept them back. When this matter came up in the old BVNPA a number of years ago I think the BOD passed a motion that those who had publicly left the organisation could be welcomed back, but would not be allowed to run under the BVNPA banner in the next election. Gary Begin and Barb Spitz were a part of that decision so perhaps that is the answer. I'm sure Gary will understand the point.
I suppose in your world one person can simply decide these matters for a whole organisation without any complaints or opposition. In a real world organisation, a President like Raymond Leung must get a clear agreement from the membership on something as important as the public disloyalty of Gary Begin and Garth Evans - and what to do about it if they want to return."
Wrong. If the same thing applied provincially or federally quite a few MLA's (provincial) and MP's (federally) would be out.
What if suppose Burnaby Willingdon Riding Association decides they do not like Gordon Campbell's carbon tax. They cannot tell John to leave, they can however defeat him in the next nomination. That's all they could do.
It is silly to think that the members or Executive or President can tell an elected official what to support.
From what was reported, there was no membership wide voted on referenda for the disbarrment of either Gary or Garth. It was a decision by Leung and his minions
exclusively. Did the actual membership have a say? Was there a member only meeting to discuss the issue??
"What he has said already seems to make good sense (i.e. that they can return if they want to, but that they should be prepared to answer a few questions). In any event, there is no hurry."
Probably fair, but on the other side TB also needs to look in the mirror.
"TB hasn't even given an indication of when the nomination date will be and there is still no solid indication of who the mayoral candidate will be."
Lee Rankin and/or Patti Sahota will be running for the mayor nomination.
Maybe the fairest way to decide the matter would be to hold a referendum in the TB membership on whether or not to accept them back."
Well genius, what was stopping the Executive from doing that in the first place?
"When this matter came up in the old BVNPA a number of years ago I think the BOD passed a motion that those who had publicly left the organisation could be welcomed back, but would not be allowed to run under the BVNPA banner in the next election."
Not true. Cite? Circumstance?
"Gary Begin and Barb Spitz were a part of that decision so perhaps that is the answer. I'm sure Gary will understand the point."
He understands alot more than what TB thinks.
Blogger wrote:
"From what was reported, there was no membership wide voted on referenda for the disbarrment of either Gary or Garth."
That is right , there wasn't. Why is it you insist on rewriting the circumstances? Garth and Gary left of their accord. Nobody asked them to leave. They sent in their resignations and then called a news conference to tell the world about it. If they now wish to return - well the ball is in their court. Raymond Leung has mentioned what they need to do. His offer seemed very generous to me.
However I expect more than a few voters in Burnaby will now look at them again and decide their poor judgement makes them unfit for elected office.
That is right , there wasn't. Why is it you insist on rewriting the circumstances? Garth and Gary left of their accord. Nobody asked them to leave."
True. But it got so bad that they had little choice (according what both said in the local paper seperately). Re-read carefully what they said the reasons were for their leaving it is in the paper.
It does come down to TB Board trying to be policing the council candidates and they have no such
right nor mandate to do so.
TB mishandled this right from the start. It is no one else's fault except those who figured some convulted non-existant contract or agreement exists whereby the elected councillors have to adhere to TB campaign positions.
There was an agreement to adhere to campaign direction in terms of policy, but that agreement ended when the campaign did.
The BC Liberals don't even operate that way (the riding association simply cannot tell its sitting MLA
how to handle policy or how to vote on a legislative matter. Same goes for Council, and there's nothing in the federal Liberal consittution or Conservative that gives ultimate decision power to the riding boards when it comes to these things and a sitting MP.)
There is no major political party that operates that way.
"They sent in their resignations and then called a news conference to tell the world about it."
Nothing wrong with that. Leung was
called to give his side of the story which was reported.
"If they now wish to return - well the ball is in their court."
and you think they would be welcomed back with open arms and all forgiven and everyone is happy happy. Not on your best day, pal.
"Raymond Leung has mentioned what they need to do. His offer seemed very generous to me."
Sounds silly. Why even bother with it since it is a loaded advantage
to Leung. He also isn't looking wide since a reconcillation of sorts would go along way to enhance TB's support and image.
"However I expect more than a few voters in Burnaby will now look at them again and decide their poor judgement makes them unfit for elected office."
The opposite could also end up being true.
Begin received a large apportion of the council vote, and it would
be surprising if all of that vote
support is totally wiped out.
But if it is, so what? What may happen is that he could end up taking votes away from the lower end of TB candidates, causing one or more of them to lose out.
But Burnaby voters do not vote according to party lines (well except the NDP). Many do vote for the person, not the party.
Face the fact. Team Burnaby really screwed up on that one.
But if that's the way they want to be so be it.
If Gary or Garth decides to go Independent so be it.
Let the voters decide the civic election outcome.
Blogger wrote:
"If Gary or Garth decides to go Independent so be it."
Finally we have something to agree on. They will bot make fine independent candidates. With the Spitzer in tow they will be formidable.
We don't agree on anything just making an observation.
Fine independent candidates indeed.
Surely something that Team Burnaby doesn't want around.
and what if Garth decides he caves in and goes back to Team Burnaby?
He is told to contest a nomination but somehow it's made a 'little easy' for him.
This whole silly chain of events doesn't need to exist.
Remember it all started with both decided to vote against Lee Rankin's wishes (i.e. vote against
everything the BCA Council members vote for).
In other words, they did the right thing, voting for the best interests of the city, and not the best interests of Lee Rankin.
Lee will be starting his nomination campaign on Monday night.
Be there when it happens.
Not entirely true, while Gary voted 80% of the time with BCA, since he has decided to caucus with TB, he belonged to one of TB, at least so he should claim in order to be able to claim a piece of the half million war chest.
But you are correct that the majority of TB members do not follow Lee Rankin's lead and they certainly do not see him as winnable candidate to unseat Corrigan. It is time to unite the four BCLIB machines with the huge war chest and take on Mayor Corrigan altogether to bring about the change to Burnaby for the first time in 20 years.
Not entirely true, while Gary voted 80% of the time with BCA, since he has decided to caucus with TB, he belonged to one of TB, at least so he should claim in order to be able to claim a piece of the half million war chest. "
Since there is no formal parliamentary provision for 'caucus' at the civic level, the caucus is just voluntary and
it is rather silly since the councillors are there to vote on
city matters. Even some NPA Vancovuer councillors in the past have not always voted with their colleagues.
You're confusing provincial caucuses with something that you and TB figure should exist at the civic level. Sorry bud, it doesn't work that way.
The Board of Directors and even the President of any political group cannot tell the politicians what to vote for and what not to vote for.
It's a bit different in provincial
and federal politics since the parliamentary tradition is to work the caucus system, which results in
a benevolent dictatorship led by
the leader of the party.
Let the councillors do what they were elected to do.
The civic parties are just there to get good people elected. Not tell them what to do afterwards.
If you don't like them after they are elected, vote them out of the nomination next time.
Gary voted for the best interests of the city. That's what he was elected to do, and what the voters
want.
What the Team Burnaby Executive wants the councillors to do does not matter.
There is no half million dollar war chest. How could there be since Team Burnaby was carrying a debt until it was supposedly retired in full?
But you are correct that the majority of TB members do not follow Lee Rankin's lead and they certainly do not see him as winnable candidate to unseat Corrigan. It is time to unite the four BCLIB machines with the huge war chest and take on Mayor Corrigan altogether to bring about the change to Burnaby for the first time in 20 years.
Yeah right as if that's ever going to happen.
If these so-called machines of yours actually existed, Richard and John and possibly Bloy would have received a much larger vote result in 2005, and Sahota, would have been re-elected, but none of that happened.
Sahota is a waste of the voter's time to be considered for the Mayor's chair.
She's been out of the public eye since 2005 and some lovesick political hack wants her to run?
Get real.
The BCA and Corrigan will snack on her like a hungry dog going through
a piece of raw meat.
Blogger wrote:
"The civic parties are just there to get good people elected. Not tell them what to do afterwards.
If you don't like them after they are elected, vote them out of the nomination next time."
Wow! are you ever naive. Do you honestly think the BCA ever falls out of a voting block? Is it merely by accident or some strage coincidnece that they always vote together? You obviously don't know how they operate. The night they got Gary Begin to vote for their budget was a red letter event. Even better was the night they got him to vote to have an independent outside counsel review Garth Evans possible/maybe/could have/but didn't breach in-camera confidentiality.
If Gary wants the total freedom to do what he wants without any thought to his colleagues or the organization he is a part of, then run as an independent.
If Garth is so dumb as to follow him out the door, then let him realize it and do what Mr. Leung suggests in order to return. Pretty simple really. As for the Spitzer, she will stay with Gary. Best place for her.
Wow! are you ever naive. Do you honestly think the BCA ever falls out of a voting block?
Depends. There have been instances where the old BVA had a majority on council and BCA members did not vote the same way.
Basic fundamentals. Councils do not work the same way as a provincial caucus or a federal caucus does. The NPA in Vancouver doesn't always vote the same way.
Is it merely by accident or some strage coincidnece that they always vote together? You obviously don't know how they operate.
I know quite a bit on how councils operate, but its a waste of time trying explain things to you obviously.
The night they got Gary Begin to vote for their budget was a red letter event.
It was the City budget put together by the Finance Department and recommded by the Finance Committee. It wasn't really "their budget" in equated to the Finance Minister in Victoria or Ottawa presenting "his government budget".
A key element here is that a budget has to be presented to council and at the civic level it is not an instrument of 'confidence in the government'
Even better was the night they got him to vote to have an independent outside counsel review Garth Evans possible/maybe/could have/but didn't breach in-camera confidentiality.
?
If Gary wants the total freedom to do what he wants without any thought to his colleagues or the organization he is a part of, then run as an independent.
If he decides, so what? If he wins
a seat, good. If not he tried and
even if he doesn't win, he should
get more votes than some of the more lamest candidates that Team Burnaby has put to the voters in the past.
"If Garth is so dumb as to follow him out the door, then let him realize it and do what Mr. Leung suggests in order to return."
Why even bother. It indicates the return is far more 'difficult' than it needs to be.
I'd say forget Leung's opinions. He's not exactly constant in his
party support either.
Pretty simple really. As for the Spitzer, she will stay with Gary. Best place for her.
Careful what you say about her, bud. She's still in the hospital.
Get real, bud.
Spitz is prancing around at social events. get your info right. Perhaps you should be in some hospital?
"Careful what you say about her, bud. She's still in the hospital."
I guess some people will do anything for the sympathy vote.
"Get real, bud.
Spitz is prancing around at social events. get your info right. Perhaps you should be in some hospital?"
Obviously wouldn't be at Essondale's Mental Disability facility. You've obviously taken the last vacant room there.
Wonder how they let you have a laptop with internet connection.
Probably part of your therapy programme.
The ECT unit tube of electrocream and antiseptics for the padded panels are being prepared for your evening session.
Hopefully the session will cure that psychosis your in.
Does the previous blogger get this worked up every time someone catches him in a blatant tear-jerking lie?
Does Team Burnaby ever come up with something new?
Obvously not. Same old thing.
and this group wants to elect their own people to run the City?
Might as well choose a few independents and a few BCA candidates and maybe one or two Team Burnaby candidates (if there are any good ones), rather than get sucked into voting for all Team Burnaby candidates.
Enough of this non-sense about electing both more BCA and less TB. Why not simply state which BCA members you want to see on the council? For someone who obviously would like to see Mayor Corrigan re-elected, I suppose the only TB members you would rather see are the ones that will be voting with the mayor. Once united, the senior candidates of TB would easily command more respect than the partisan senior candidates of BCA.
And with TB members jumping out of the partisan divide it will be easily the choice for new voters especially if Patty Sahota gets nominated to run against Mayor Corrigan and grab those youth votes, female votes and ethnic votes required to put the TB into majority.
"Why not simply state which BCA members you want to see on the council?"
Hey! Good call. This blogger has been like a broken record for six months. I also would like to read just who on BCA he would like to see back. He also mentions wanting the independent(meaning Garth Gary Begin & Barbara). That makes six or seven already so maybe he would also vote for Lee Rankin if Mr. Rankin promises to be a good boy.
He must be pretty happy with th eway things are because the above group won't be in a position to change Diddly Squish.
Quite a few have bene a broken record for the past few months, particularly the idiot who thinks Patti Sahota is going to end up being Mayor.
As to who to vote for, you don't need to know.
Lee Rankin maybe, but not nessesrily.
It depends if he continues acting
the way he is.
If he starts acting like most Team Burnaby members, forget it.
There's no requirement to vote for
all council vacancies.
“There's no requirement to vote for all council vacancies.”
There is requirement to fill all council vacancies. Since you have failed to name names and would like to see Mayor Corrigan re-elected, the motivation is too clear and TB is smart enough to fall for this be divided. The aim to defeat Mayor Corrigan has been set as a target for TB campaign very long ago and there is no question electibility in the general election will be key determinant to not only to defeat Mayor Corrigan, but it will also determine level of grass-root support the amount of firepower and resources the party will have equipped to take on BCA. Certainly we do not need to know who should represent TB since some have already decided to vote for Mayor Corrigan no matter who gets nominated TB. Neither will their opinions matter in the general election. The opinions that will matter are the massive numbers of voters that will decide on Mayor Corrigan’s fate on a vote of confidence vs. his alternative. And there is no question Patty Sahota will continue to hold advantages in youth votes, female votes and ethnic votes.
There is requirement to fill all council vacancies.
There on part of the civic groups, but not by voter. The voter can vote for just one candidate or select whom he or she wishes to fill all of the seats or any number in between.
Since you have failed to name names and would like to see Mayor Corrigan re-elected, the motivation is too clear and TB is smart enough to fall for this be divided.
Why bother naming names?
The aim to defeat Mayor Corrigan has been set as a target for TB campaign very long ago and there is no question electibility in the general election will be key determinant to not only to defeat Mayor Corrigan, but it will also determine level of grass-root support the amount of firepower and resources the party will have equipped to take on BCA.
Assuming that is that Team Burnaby also comes up with something that we the voters can vote for.
There's no sense in voting for Team Buraby just to defeat Corrigan and no other purpose.
Sell yourselves to the voters with goals and ideas that we can use.
Going after Corrigan and perpetually stating the BCA is the NDP isn't going to cut it.
"Certainly we do not need to know who should represent TB since some have already decided to vote for Mayor Corrigan no matter who gets nominated TB. Neither will their opinions matter in the general election."
All opinions matetr in the general election.
The opinions that will matter are the massive numbers of voters that will decide on Mayor Corrigan’s fate on a vote of confidence vs. his alternative.
And just who will that alternative be? Lee Rankin the ex: NDPer ex:
Independent? Patti Sahota who hasn't done anything of value for Burnaby since she lost her riding?
"And there is no question Patty Sahota will continue to hold advantages in youth votes, female votes and ethnic votes."
Yeah right. If youth were smart they wouldn't go for her, they would go for experience since that is what matters if there was going to be a new government.
Given a choice between Lee Rankin and Sahota, I'd go for Lee Rankin,
but that's assuming that he doesn't get idiotic like some Team Burnaby members have.
"Yeah right. If youth were smart they wouldn't go for her, they would go for experience since that is what matters if there was going to be a new government.
Given a choice between Lee Rankin and Sahota, I'd go for Lee Rankin,
but that's assuming that he doesn't get idiotic like some Team Burnaby members have."
Patti Sahota has as much experience as Robertson who has not even served a full term. And her experience as the cabinet minister by far beats Lee Rankin's experience. There were a dozen cabinet ministers under Campbell while there are thousands like Lee Rankin across the province. And Lee Rankin would have no chance on the youth votes, female votes and ethinic votes required to win against a powerful incumbent whose machine Lee Rankin cannot even touch. If the voters are ready for change and there is no doubt which candidate best represents change between Patti Sahota and Derek Corrigan.
"Patti Sahota has as much experience as Robertson who has not even served a full term."
No she doesn't. Patti didn't do much as a backbencher, and it was
only because of pure politics that she got a Cabinet Ministry that didn't need to exist. Robertson on
the other hand had quite a profile
right from the start since it was
rather odd that a successful business person would run for the NDP, and people took a liking to him.
"And her experience as the cabinet minister by far beats Lee Rankin's experience."
She was only a Cabinet Minister from February to April, slightly more than a 90 day warranty period.
Lee's record in civic government goes back to the early 1980's.
"There were a dozen cabinet ministers under Campbell while there are thousands like Lee Rankin across the province."
Not really a comparative.
"And Lee Rankin would have no chance on the youth votes, female votes and ethinic votes required to win against a powerful incumbent whose machine Lee Rankin cannot even touch."
Read the results from 2005. He was
the top receiver of votes for council. A candidate does not get that without a good proportion of
youth, ethnic and female votes.
If the voters are ready for change and there is no doubt which candidate best represents change between Patti Sahota and Derek Corrigan.
No doubt. Lee Rankin.
Vote Lee.
"Not really a comparative. "
Is it really? One day in the Premier's office beats 20 years in the Legislative Assembly. Just ask Gordon Campbell and Jenny Kwan. Lee Rankin will never, again, NEVER reach to the same height. Patti Sahota's prohibitive advantage on Derek Corrigan in youth, female, & ethnic votes is already clear. You can hope that Lee Rankin can get nominated so Mayor Corrigan will cakewalk to the victory. But the massive number of general electorates know better and it is obvious to them who actually represents change between Patti Sahota and Derek Corrigan.
"Is it really? One day in the Premier's office beats 20 years in the Legislative Assembly. Just ask Gordon Campbell and Jenny Kwan. Lee Rankin will never, again, NEVER reach to the same height."
It's not a question of reaching perceived heights. It's a question
of being a participant in civic government.
Besides I've been in the Premier's Office myself more than once or twice. There's not much in there to see. Unless the reason being there was similar to mine. To see a friend who works in there.
Lee was never in the Legislative Assembly. His record has been within the city council.
"Patti Sahota's prohibitive advantage on Derek Corrigan in youth, female, & ethnic votes is already clear."
Those aspects don't matter to the ordinary voter. They aren't interested in someone who markets herself to youth, females and ethnic voters, since Lee gets support from each of those groups anyway. Youth is notoriously absent from muncipal election compared to older voters.
You can hope that Lee Rankin can get nominated so Mayor Corrigan will cakewalk to the victory.
There is that probably, but the more important aspect of possibilty selecting him over Sahota is that Rankin has experience in city government. Sahota does not.
But the massive number of general electorates know better and it is obvious to them who actually represents change between Patti Sahota and Derek Corrigan.
Lee Rankin no doubt.
But at this stage the electorate directly doesn't matter. It's the Team Burnaby membership that will ultimately decide who wins the nomination for the Mayor's seat if Lee decides to go that route.
Patti should go after a seat on council, and then after her first term and provided that she has acomplished something other than smiling, then perhaps go for the nomination for the mayoralty candidate next time.
Nominate Lee Rankin for Mayor Candidate.
"Besides I've been in the Premier's Office myself more than once or twice."
It is not about what is happening inside the office that matters, (as opposed to Bil Clinton), it is the prestige and respect that came with it. Again, just ask Jenny Kwan, and Lee Rankin would never reach the same height that either Jenny Kwan or Patti Sahota did. There are thousands like Lee Rankin across the province and the majority of them want to serve in Victoria, and few would make it.
The only public service Gregory Robertson was involved was as a half-term MLA, fine, three-quarters-term MLA, in the backbench. Councilor Louie could have served since kindergarten and still be no match. It is like asking Senator Hillary Clinton not to run because she was "not experienced" enough and probably she should run for the Mayor of Little Rock, Arkansas instead of for the president.
The general electorates are smarter than that. Most BCA loyalists are praying that Lee Rankin would gain the nomination and just have Derek Corrigan cakewalk to his re-election. But we all know the prohibitive advantages Patti Sahota has in female votes, youth votes, and ethnic votes. No, not college people youth votes, but youth votes as in Under 40's. You bet the female voters will consider Patti's female factor before they vote. You bet ethnic voters will consider her ethnic factor before they vote. And you can also bet "youth" voters will consider her "not yet retired" factor before they vote. Expanding the base against Mayor Corrigan with four well financed BCLIB machines operating altogether, Patti Sahota's victory is all but certain. It is time for a woman mayor.
It is not about what is happening inside the office that matters, (as opposed to Bil Clinton), it is the prestige and respect that came with it.
What prestige. Sounds a bit aloof to me. It's just top end of the
political totem pole.
Again, just ask Jenny Kwan, and Lee Rankin would never reach the same height that either Jenny Kwan or Patti Sahota did.
Why does Jenny Kwan factor in? She had time on Vancouver council before being an MLA.
As for Sahota, she did work in there as a political hack, but there's not much value to that on the record presented to the voter since those positions are considered political goodies.
"There are thousands like Lee Rankin across the province and the majority of them want to serve in Victoria, and few would make it."
Only takes a majority of members in a riding association of a party that is governmnt to make that happen.
"The only public service Gregory Robertson was involved was as a half-term MLA, fine, three-quarters-term MLA, in the backbench."
He was also representing his constituents and did well at it since he became well known and liked in Vancouver.
"Councilor Louie could have served since kindergarten and still be no match."
Raymound Louie is too arrogant.
It is like asking Senator Hillary Clinton not to run because she was "not experienced" enough and probably she should run for the Mayor of Little Rock, Arkansas instead of for the president.
Not much of a comparison there either. She has experience in the Senate and of course hubby was in the White House. But that's U.S.
politics, not Canadian.
The general electorates are smarter than that. Most BCA loyalists are praying that Lee Rankin would gain the nomination and just have Derek Corrigan cakewalk to his re-election.
Possibily, but they aren't exactly shaking in fear if Patti Sahota should be the Mayoralty candidate. In fact if she wins the nomination, it will make the BCA's chances even greater.
But we all know the prohibitive advantages Patti Sahota has in female votes, youth votes, and ethnic votes. No, not college people youth votes, but youth votes as in Under 40's.
Can we divide the voter marketplace like that? It's a bit of splitting hairs since there aren't any issues specific to Under 40's as a demographic bloc at the civic level.
"You bet the female voters will consider Patti's female factor before they vote."
No they don't. The smart ones choose on the basis of who can best serve the city. Gender isn't much of a factor except for those who think it is.
"You bet ethnic voters will consider her ethnic factor before they vote."
Not nessesarily. Multi-cultural issues in Burnaby are handled by the Burnaby Multi-cultural Society who represent multi-cultural interests in the city, not specifically council.
"And you can also bet "youth" voters will consider her "not yet retired" factor before they vote."
Probably not. It hasn't worked much in other cities so why would it work here?
"Expanding the base against Mayor Corrigan with four well financed BCLIB machines operating altogether, Patti Sahota's victory is all but certain."
That is assuming that she wins the nomination and Team Burnaby actually has something to offer the voters as a positive progressive alternative rather than a group of people who end up being Burnaby's finest whine.
"It is time for a woman mayor."
It may be time for you to enjoy summer by not spending alot of time
thinking of Patti Sahota in a blouse and skirt and go out and see beautiful British Columbia.
"In fact if she wins the nomination, it will make the BCA's chances even greater."
Both Jennifer Kwan and Patti Sahota served as ministers while there are thousands like Lee Rankin across the province. Lee Rankin can dream of becoming a cabinet minister but he will never make it. But ask Jenny Kwan if she would like to spend one day as the premier? Say whatever you want, but the fact remains that Lee Rankin would give up a lot of things to spend a day as the cabinet minister, but like thousands of others, he has not the chance to do that.
the Mayor of Little Rock could have claimed that Senator Hillary Clinton should serve on the city council before running for the mayor and would immediately be discredited. So that is settled.
"That is assuming that she wins the nomination and Team Burnaby actually has something to offer the voters as a positive progressive alternative rather than a group of people who end up being Burnaby's finest whine."
Actually, BCLIB machines are much more than whiners, a lot more. We all know that and BCNDP acting as whiners in provincial elections do not help much so there is certainly much more to campaigning against a powerful incumbent. The four BCLIB machines will automatically unite around Patti Sahota, especially considering Patti Sahota's own machine is located right in the heart of Mayor Corrigan's own riding.
So what should the tatctics be on the ground against Mayor Corrigan one asks? In terms of appealing to youth votes, U40's are easily the group of people who would like to see change and they will be motivated to vote if Patti Sahota can bring them an exciting vision for the more urban areas that many of them are living in now. Making the city more urban to include the U40's voters as part of the city will have them come out to vote in droves.
How does one appeal to female voters? Well, female voters are more inclined to vote based on image. With personal touch and publicity, she can easily out-poll Mayor Corrigan who is almost detached from the residents. Emphasizing issues like education and environment with a personal tone in the campaign can too bring them out to the poll.
As for the ethnic votes, she is already an expert in that and standing next the Richard Lee, John Nuraney, and Harry Bloy's machines, she should have that pretty much locked while the two Chinese candidates from BCA will very likely work as wallpapers without much appeal to the ethnic voters.
And I like many others would love to see our mayor wearing a skirt while holding meetings with party heavyweights in the city hall. I think it would be nice to have mayor who does not mind checking herself in the mirror from now and then. It would certainly be a refreshing change for the city.
Where - oh where to start?
"especially considering Patti Sahota's own machine is located right in the heart of Mayor Corrigan's own riding."
What machine are you talking about? The machine that lost the election to an unknown opponent three years ago? Has she been keeping it oiled and tuned up in a way that no one knows about?
<<<<<<<<<<<<
"How does one appeal to female voters? Well, female voters are more inclined to vote based on image."
It's a good thing my girl friend didn't read this. Could you be any more patronizing about female voters? or what appeals to them?
<<<<<<<<<<<<
"So what should the tatctics be on the ground against Mayor Corrigan one asks? ....they will be motivated to vote if Patti Sahota can bring them an exciting vision for the more urban areas that many of them are living in now."
Are you suggestign that Patti is a good campaigner? You might want to give us a hint about what in her past experience shows this. What makes you think Ms. Sahota has any vision at all for Burnaby? Has she given even one speech in the last three years on the subject? Has she written even one letter to the local newspapers about what she sees as the future of Burnaby?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"I like many others would love to see our mayor wearing a skirt while holding meetings with party heavyweights in the city hall. I think it would be nice to have mayor who does not mind checking herself in the mirror from now and then. It would certainly be a refreshing change for the city."
Is this some sort of a joke? Are you for real? How many lovepuppies like you are out there?
"How many lovepuppies like you are out there?"
Gawd, please don't ask him again.
don't even want to know what he does immediately after looking at pictures of her...
Who is this pervert who keeps writing about Patty Sahota?
He talks complete nonsense and attributes qualities to her which DO NOT exist.
Patty who?
But more important, who is this pervert. Hope he does not live in your neighbourhood. Women be aware!
"pervert"?
That is a harsh word to describe fellow bloggers. I challenge this post to say which qualities mentioned above did not exist. Is it the general electibility? Is it the appeal to young voters, ethnic voters, and female voters in a political landscape that is becoming increasingly about identity more than anyone? Or is it the competence she had by making the cabinet, for herself, and for the city? And one is disturbed by these qualities how? Many would agree that she is well qualified shall she run, and I challenge you to find reasons that say otherwise.
"Or is it the competence she had by making the cabinet, for herself, and for the city?"
What competence? She got the post simply because the BC Liberals figured it was a way to save her from defeat.
It didn't work.
The Ministry was a make work project for her designed to look good. It wasn't really all that nessesary, since it could have been a part of Small Business.
The Ministry did not continue after the 2005 election, so what does that say? Alot.
The only real 'qualifications' that a person needs to run in a provincial election is to be able to vote and be a Canadian citizen and be a resident of B.C.
For the parties, one has to be a member.
So there are many others who are qualified as she is.
She hasn't even walked into the public spot light to do the song and dance act about what she would do for Burnaby if she was elected.
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