Will vote for who I figure will make a good councillor, thank you.
Richard Lee and the BC Liberals doesn't factor in the decision as to who to vote for.
Unity is only for political parties, not government.
Will choose a mix of the Independents and BCA. Plus maybe one team Burnaby candidate if he or she makes the grade. So far, Team Burnaby is failing the grade in terms of quality.
Surely Garth has a huge credibility problem. If he goes back, one has to ask why he left with such fanfare in the first place (calling a news conference at the Best Western Inn no less). I heard he was alone with four walls at the news conference. But if he stays as an independent he is toast.
What will it be: Door A or Door B? But his troubles don't stop there. He has already betryayed everyone at Team Bby. Then again, if he goes back, he will have double crossed his new best friends Barbara and Gary Begin.
I think maybe there is a comedy skit being written here. What happens if he goes back to Team, but fails to get the nomination? Does he quit again and join the independents?(again). Yep! I'd say credibility is certainly an issue.
BETRAYAL? Remember what happened with the 2005 Team Burnaby nominations?
Gary Begin - with a 25 year record of success in civic elections and one of the most dedidated community volunteers in the city- FAILED to secure a TB nomination. Only afterwards did a newcomer step aside to allow Gary to run, and then Gary finished in Second Place in the election.
Totally weird man. You'd almost think a BCA insider was running Team Burnaby, eh? But who believes in such consipracies? That would be crazy.
Team Burnaby people on this blog are really not getting the Big Picture. They seem to be fighting the 2005 Nomination rather than doing something useful such as presenting something for the voters to vote for.
Who would want a group that constantly complains and figures it is beholden to the BC Liberals??
The goal is to vote for candidates who will best serve the interests of the city, not some idiot president of a civic party, nor the interests of Gordon Campbell.
"Don't forget the ideological slogans and the flags."
One does not need to be well versed in politics to understand where on the ideological spectrum BCA stands on. Until they severe ties with the socialist BCNDP party, it will continue to be the radical choice for the voters while BCLIB and whoever aligns with them will continue to be the common sense choice. If they believe that only those who subscribe to BCNDP's ideologies are allowed to become its members, BCA should have realized they were marginalized from the very beginning and it is undeniable that the more voters will be showing up at the poll, the more likely our BCA will lose, especially true now with BCNDP polling below 30%. The voters will decide if they would like to see the socialist mayor stay in power or to have a new government that does not go against common-sense.
One does not need to be well versed in politics to understand where on the ideological spectrum BCA stands on."
A bit of a stretch there, since the BCA is a subset of the NDP, but to factor in socialism as applied to national policy to the civic level is just plain ignorant, since civic level politics doesn't have much room for ordinary socialist thought.
Until they severe ties with the socialist BCNDP party, it will continue to be the radical choice for the voters while BCLIB and whoever aligns with them will continue to be the common sense choice.
Well not nessesarily on both counts.
The BCA would not sever its ties with the NDP, and the BC Liberals can hardly be said to be the 'common sense' choice at the civic level.
If they believe that only those who subscribe to BCNDP's ideologies are allowed to become its members, BCA should have realized they were marginalized from the very beginning and it is undeniable that the more voters will be showing up at the poll, the more likely our BCA will lose, especially true now with BCNDP polling below 30%.
Well that polling can change. Wonder if the same thing would occur if the Liberals polled less than the NDP (which it did prior to the 1996 election).
The BCA like BC Liberals markets to a specific voter interest.
The voters will decide if they would like to see the socialist mayor stay in power or to have a new government that does not go against common-sense.
In Team Burnaby's sense, there is no common-sense, as shown by many bloggers here from that civic party.
Would still question the concept of Team Burnaby being BC Liberal since the BC Liberal Party has never passed any policy resolution to amend its constitution to include civic level parties such as Team Burnaby.
In fact why would Team Burnaby be so focused on the BC Liberals when there is also the federal Conservatives and federal Liberals who could play a part at the civic level, in other words, Team Burnaby has always touted itself as being non-partisan, but obviously that is not true now is it?
Too much emphasis on BC Liberals trying to protect their 'turf' (which actually does not exist except for the riding associations.)
It will be interesting to see what the poll numbers will be as we get closer to the 2009 election.
This perpetual "NDP is polling at 30%" is wearing a bit thin.
Would you continually reference a low poll for the BC Liberals? Probably not.
Team Burnaby does not "equal" BCLIB. BCLIB is a much larger provincial organization led by Gordon Campbell whose purpose is to see BCNDP out of power, and TB is the smaller civic party whose purpose is to see BCNDP's civic party out of power. There are great overlaps on both sides, BCA's mayor is married to a socialist candidate running to become an BCNDP backbencher, and BCLIB MLA's unanimous consent to have TB unseat the socialist mayor also goes without saying.
The debate of which of the socialist BCNDP vs. populist BCLIB is more poll friendly has been settled in 2001. BCNDP's ideology is one that will not be accepted at least for the next decade. The majority (70%) of the general electorates now oppose the socialist mayor's ideology. If they do not severe ties from the socialist strategy and mandate carrying membership with the provincial party, to elect a mayor whose ideology the majority oppose is only undemocratic. The voters will decide on his socialist association to BCNDP and they too will decide which side is the common sense choice.
Garth's a real nowhere Man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
Doesn't have a point of view, Knows not where he's going to, Isn't he a bit like you and me? Nowhere Man, please listen, You don't know what you're missin', Nowhere Man, the world is at your command.
Garth's as blind as he can be, Just sees what he wants to see, Nowhere Man can you see me at all?
Nowhere Man, don't worry, Take your time, don't hurry, Leave it all 'till somebody else lends you a hand.
Doesn't have a point of view, Knows not where he's going to, Isn't he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere man please listen, you don't know what your missin' Nowhere Man, the world is at your command
Garth's a real Nowhere Man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody. Making all his nowhere plans for nobody. Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
I seriously doubt it's anyone from T/B. A better bet would be that the writer is one of those "activists and organizers" who left with him. One or more of them doesn't want him to be welcomed back into TEAM since they would have even less chance might not be.
"Some fucked up Team Burnaby member sure has alot of extra time on his hands."
Your blogging level seems to be at par with the blogger that composed that sarcastic poem against Garth.
TB has much more to gain if Garth comes back and it is apparent that is welcome, it is only the socialist bloggers associated with opposition BCNDP that are better versed in mockery for personal gains.
The fact on the ground is simple. 1. Garth Evans left the party because he believed he can defeat Mayor Corrigan by himself. 2. Garth Evans realized that he has no support from BCLIB to achieve that feat and contemplates coming back. 3. With the top three BCLIB figures in the city making their decision clear, Garth Evans' choice before him is clear and it looks like that he too believes that it will be smart unite to elect a new government altogether.
"TB has much more to gain if Garth comes back and it is apparent that is welcome, it is only the socialist bloggers associated with opposition BCNDP that are better versed in mockery for personal gains. "
Team Burnaby lambasted Garth for leaving and now they want him back?
Talk about being hypocritical.
The fact on the ground is simple. "1. Garth Evans left the party because he believed he can defeat Mayor Corrigan by himself. "
Wrong. he left because he disagreed with the Executive in terms of being dictated to as to decisions in council. Read the paper.
If Garth ran for Mayor either TB or Independent against Corrigan, he'd never make it.
"2. Garth Evans realized that he has no support from BCLIB to achieve that feat and contemplates coming back. "
Considering that he is a part of Burnaby North Liberals, that's hard to believe.'
3. With the top three BCLIB figures in the city making their decision clear, Garth Evans' choice before him is clear and it looks like that he too believes that it will be smart unite to elect a new government altogether."
What decisions have those three "top" BC Liberals made? Was this reported in the paper for the public to see? When?
Funny, there hasn't been anything written in either paper about these so-called 'top three' BCLIB and their decision. There was one, Harry Bloy, but everyone knows he's out to try and bring everyone together so he can go to the Preimer and 'deliver' Burnaby in hopes that closes the gap between where he is now, and a new desk in the Office of the Minister of his choosing.
In other words, Harry wants a Cabinet Post and he's using Team Burnaby to get one.
We'll see in two to three weeks whether that works or not.
BCLIB's decision to oppose Mayor Corrigan's re-election is already clear and any further explanation would be as redundant as criticizing Mayor Corrigan's unquestioned loyalty to BCNDP.
Does Harry Bloy or Richard Lee want to have a seat in the cabinet? Of course they do. But Harry Bloy has been opposing long enough for people to believe that his opposition to Mayor Corrigan's re-election and his ideology is sincere. And no matter if it is the BCA councilor past attack on Richard Lee or the sitting mayor's spousal candidacy against John Nuraney, Harry Bloy has just been more visible than others. To say Harry Bloy is backing TB for cabinet post is too far-fetched. A more reasonable explanation would be that he simply has a different vision for Burnaby and maybe someday if circumstance allows, he may one day bring the voters the vision he has for the City of Burnaby.
Will BCLIB's call for unity work? Seeing that those opposing unity are those supporting Mayor Corrigan's re-election, it only makes sense that Councilor Evans to come back. To recite the reason, be it apparent or otherwise, right now dos not serve anyone's purpose and the party leadership has already said Evans and his friends are welcome to join the nomination battle is more than enough to prove the animosity between them has been dissipated. He too has made clear which party he will run against and is shifting focus from past to future. It should be a simple choice for him anyway if he is sure that the priority is to see the transition of power in the city hall, rather than at the TB's party leadership.
"BCLIB's decision to oppose Mayor Corrigan's re-election is already clear and any further explanation would be as redundant as criticizing Mayor Corrigan's unquestioned loyalty to BCNDP."
Has there been a formal decision that can be read by the public in the local paper?
"Does Harry Bloy or Richard Lee want to have a seat in the cabinet? Of course they do."
Every MLA does, nothing new there, but only the best make it to Cabinet. Plus geography plays a strong part.
"But Harry Bloy has been opposing long enough for people to believe that his opposition to Mayor Corrigan's re-election and his ideology is sincere."
It's also old news. Hardly a point to earn on that trip to the Cabinet post.
"And no matter if it is the BCA councilor past attack on Richard Lee or the sitting mayor's spousal candidacy against John Nuraney, Harry Bloy has just been more visible than others."
Deliberately. And of not much real value.
"To say Harry Bloy is backing TB for cabinet post is too far-fetched."
Not really. Many know he wants a cabinet post.
"A more reasonable explanation would be that he simply has a different vision for Burnaby and maybe someday if circumstance allows, he may one day bring the voters the vision he has for the City of Burnaby. "
Exactly. Emphasis on what he wants. Nothing else matters.
"Will BCLIB's call for unity work? Seeing that those opposing unity are those supporting Mayor Corrigan's re-election, it only makes sense that Councilor Evans to come back."
That's interesting Evans leaves and literally takes Evans for a scrape along Kingsway because his leaving by Team Burnaby and now there's overtures to want him back? Hypocrisy is everywhere on that statement.
"To recite the reason, be it apparent or otherwise, right now dos not serve anyone's purpose and the party leadership has already said Evans and his friends are welcome to join the nomination battle is more than enough to prove the animosity between them has been dissipated."
Sure. Right.
He too has made clear which party he will run against and is shifting focus from past to future. It should be a simple choice for him anyway if he is sure that the priority is to see the transition of power in the city hall, rather than at the TB's party leadership.
This is Chairman Leung we're referring to." He is going to step down if he is to join the nomination race. Again, it was Councilor Evans' choice to put away his party membership and as Chairman Leung has stated he is welcome to come back anytime as there were never a conflict at the beginning.. So the animosity between Councilor Evans and Chairman Leung is now no more. Peace and cooperation has always been the right way to accomplish anything.
Where is Harry Bloy behind all this? True, BCLIB desires to see a new mayor elected. But I hope it is already clear that Harry Bloy is simply trying to bring everyone together. For what purpose one may be not so sure. But I am certain everyone would rather see peace than war and Harry Bloy's effort to minimize political disagreement is too something everyone will agree to support.
TB does have more to gain if Garth comes back. Unfortunately, its ego and pride that are their demise. These guys need to check their egos and pride at the door sit down and have a rationale meeting between each other to see if things can be worked out. There is already a common ground to defeat Corrigan. The Executive of TB are either current or past Federal Conservatives, Federal Liberals and NDP just like Harry and Garth.
The easiest way to defeat an opposition is by having them weak and divided. And the best way to keep the opposition weak and divided is by misinforming bloggers like us who are passionate about Burnaby right of centre politics. A party which is divided will always fall as we have seen historically in municipal, provincial and federal politics.
Who cares about the issues, like the oil spill, computer boondoggle, Pacific Gateway or dredging Burnaby Lake then. We are so enraptured and engrossed by the infighting lets just give the keys of city hall to Corrigan and continue blogging and cannibalizing the BC Libs, TB, Harry and Garth. Its more fun isn't it?
BCA supporters are not fooling anyone trying to fame the simple disagreement on the issue of how to deal with a councilor that votes with BCA between Chairman Leung vs. Councilor Evans to some meteoric clashing of partisans vs. independents. But again, they are not fooling anyone and Councilor Evans will continue to be credible within TB since he never had any major disagreement with the party itself. And you are absolutely correct as the majority of both partisan opposition and independents do want to see a change of government. But it is time to move on since I am certain voters are more interested in policy debates, unfortunately for BCA since their socialist ideology has put them at a disadvantage from the start. For an example, Mayor Corrigan thinks that sending out fliers opposing the twinning project, when he fails to realize Minister Kelvan Falcon belongs to a party that controls a budget 100 times the civic budget, is going to cause wide-spread riot against BCLIB's "anti-environment" policy but the facts on the ground have proven him wrong. It is becoming apparent that he hardly represents the majority opinion on the Gateway program and to wage a war on Minister Falcon who is well aware of BCA every action to oppose his legacy will simply further push BCA's image towards the left. The two more moderate Taiwanese candidates (two of the three rookie candidate, the other former president of the civic party) nominated by Mayor Corrigan too will lose their centrist appeal if they decide to follow Mayor Corrigan's lead to oppose Gateway program, not to mention their faithful commitment to the mayor's decision through computer-gate.
But to come back to the central issue of who Team Burnaby should nominate as the candidate opposing Mayor Corrigan. BCLIB support for TB does not automatically translate into unanimous support for Lee Rankin's mayoral bid, who admittedly is largely unelectable. Some have speculated that those opposing Lee's candidacy would like to see Harry Bloy running against Mayor Corrigan. For the sake of unity however, the party needs to look ahead to the general election and elect someone who can attract support of all sides and given the uniter image of Harry Bloy, it is thoroughly understandable he would be asked to run. Councilor Evans, and to a large extent Councilor Begin will bring many "independent" voters back to TB fold, but I sincerely believe none of that will happen if they believe Lee Rankin is nominated as the mayor.
One has to remember that unlike the council election, the mayoral election is winner-take-all where voters will vote against high negatives given Lee's LIB and NDP background. Some TB supporters may decide to vote neither of the two major party candidates if it comes to this. Harry Bloy and Richard Lee however will only have BCA supporters voting against them while motivating far more TB supporters to come out to the poll, either of whom Garth Evans has very much respect for.
It will be tricky however, since I believe both Harry and Richard are want to stay in the government for a third term by getting re-elected in 2009. But I believe either of this two BCLIB figures will be the perfect candidate this year, or 2011 past the next provincial election given their popular appeals.
So who should be the perfect candidate in 2009 on TB's side? That person has to be a uniting figure who has already organizational support on the ground. Sitting incumbents aside, I still believe former prominent cabinet minister Patty Sahota will be the perfect candidate against Mayor Corrigan, given her appeal to younger voters, immigrant voters, and female voters. It will be difficult for TB to find someone who is equally appealing to the community.
"it only makes sense that Councilor Evans to come back."
Oh yeah? Why is that? you didn't make much of a case.
and:
"To recite the reason, be it apparent or otherwise, right now dos not serve anyone's purpose."
If not right now, then when? ____________________________
I rather doubt that there is much enthusiasm in TB to have Garth or anyone else back. The organization looks to me to be moving forward quite nicely. There is a high profile dinner planned for sometime this month and I imagine there will be the usual local scribes present to take note of the health of TB. The dinner will most likely have a "coming out" of those individuals who plan to run for Council or School Board. I would bet Leung will make sure there is not a shortage of candidates for any position.
This blog site is full of happy talk about Garth and his friends going back without any need for an explanation. Get real! We are presumably talking about who is going to run the City of Burnaby after November. Are the voters going to re-elect councillors who, when they have a tiff with their colleagues, call a news conference to announce they are quitting? Is this how city hall will be run if they get back with a majority? If T/B takes them back they are dumber than I thought.
And what happens with all those other candidates who would like a shot at runnning for council? Are they supposed to step aside because Harry or Jon or Richard Lee say is is best to let Garth/Gary have another run? Whoever is writing this drivel is on drugs.
Garth did as much damage to T/B as he could when he and others rented a hotel room to announce they were quitting. They had their chance and they took their shot. But they did much worse to themselves.
Even new candidates for council and school board would be better for T/B than Garth and his friends. Their names may not be quite as well known to voters, but they also deserve their shot and I am pretty sure they will all work a lot harder and have less need of ego stroking than those who have left.
"And what happens with all those other candidates who would like a shot at runnning for council? Are they supposed to step aside because Harry or Jon or Richard Lee say is is best to let Garth/Gary have another run?"
Why not? It was orginally set to that grandfather clause in the first place. (the incumbents would not be faced with a nomination contest for their seats).
But in the end, it really should be the membership - not a select loud view on the Executive or otherwise that decide who gets a nomination or not.
Team Burnaby and a few such as previous writer are certainly not seeing the Big Picture and are being excessively protective for some reason.
If the newer want to be nominees want to contest the nomination, fine let them.
In fact here's a novel idea:
Make it a wide open contest for everyone to seek a seat.
But ultimately, it will be the voters, not Team Burnaby members that will decide who ends up on City Council.
It may not be all Team Burnaby candidates, and with the attitude displayed by some Team Burnaby supporters here, why would any one want Team Burnaby running the city?
Burnaby would be much better off with the BCA majority than a much of arrogant self-centered and conceited people who think they have Gordon Campbell's interests more at hand than that of the city at large.
It would be good for Team Burnaby to taste defeat, as in only one of them makes it to council, if that.
"as in only one of them makes it to council, if that." Any one of Leung, Rankin, or Evans is enough to keep the mayor in check. All three together voting against the mayor with consistency will keep all of the BCA councilors present at city hall.
Why would someone want someone else, Patty Sahota, for example, to govern for a change? Firstly, change is healthy. Secondly, despite losing by single digit in 2005, they have acted as faithful opposition on Mayor Corrigan with fanfares, except for the selected few.
One can easily find shortcomings in TB, just one can find them in BCA, more easily given the nature of the governing party. I do not think TB is wrong to oppose the mayor's ideology and it too respects the mayor's socialist ideology as the polls prove there is great appeal among the voters. No one too finds the mayor at fault if his ideals align with those of Carole James.
But if TB believe it can govern better, then by all means they should market themselves and ask the voters to decide. And it should welcome criticism from across the aisle or elsewhere as BCA should too.
John/Harry/Richard should too welcome criticism from those who did not vote for them in 2005. But as Burnaby citizens, they too should support candidates they see representative of their interests. BCLIB supporters are all worth one vote each, the same applies to their leadership and its public servants. It is merely one group that supports a change of government since we know the party does not represent everyone general electorate.
Burnaby would be better off to have a new government for a change, and one hopes it will be one led by Patty Sahota. That I believe will be a historic victory and that government should also welcome opposition from Taiwanese BCA councilors or then former government finance chair. But the voters will decide if they want to have a historic change of government. And they too will decide between the apparent ideals that mayor believes and the populist reform supported by TB.
Maybe more too, but I think Raymond Leung will win and he will make a good council member. He has done a very important job to clean up trouble makers in Team Burnaby and he will do a very good job on council of Burnaby.
So it's decided! Patty Sahota for mayor. Lee and Garth kiss and make up. Then, the new Burnaby Lake rowing facility will become a new sports tourism resort, and we build a new private-public-partnership hospital. The future is so grand! We should all march in step.
Patti Sahota would be the worst choice for Mayor (but Team Burnaby has a habit of making bad choices in running itself). Sahota is hardly a prominent person since she was a last minute Cabinet Minister (she got that because of convenience rather than a real need). She couldn't even hang on to her own riding and riding association.
Raymond Leung has nothing to offer Burnaby voters, so he'll lose (and his idiotic statements in the local paper won't help him win either).
38 Comments:
Yeah so?
Way too much time to worry about him.
Use common sense and pick the same side that Richard Lee/BCLIB is standing on. It is time for unity.
Will vote for who I figure will make a good councillor, thank you.
Richard Lee and the BC Liberals doesn't factor in the decision as to who to vote for.
Unity is only for political parties, not government.
Will choose a mix of the Independents and BCA. Plus maybe one team Burnaby candidate if he or she makes the grade. So far, Team Burnaby is failing the grade in terms of quality.
But there's time for improvement.
But not much.
Go for it.
Surely Garth has a huge credibility problem. If he goes back, one has to ask why he left with such fanfare in the first place (calling a news conference at the Best Western Inn no less). I heard he was alone with four walls at the news conference. But if he stays as an independent he is toast.
What will it be: Door A or Door B? But his troubles don't stop there. He has already betryayed everyone at Team Bby. Then again, if he goes back, he will have double crossed his new best friends Barbara and Gary Begin.
I think maybe there is a comedy skit being written here. What happens if he goes back to Team, but fails to get the nomination? Does he quit again and join the independents?(again). Yep! I'd say credibility is certainly an issue.
Team Burnaby is one that is lacking credibility.
But maybe some credibility could
be built up with the forsight and
motivation of Chairman Leung.
He should start writing that Little Red Book pretty soon so that all members have a pocket sized copy so that they can read his quotes.
Some wag in Team Burnaby will come out with an edict that it is compulsory for all members to read one passage per day.
Might want want to distribute iPod
usable versions of "March of the Volunteers".
Then get ready for that Long March
to Burnaby Sqaure...
Chairman Leung knows everything.
Just as Premier Gordon Campbell knows everything.
Each has party apparatchik and a polituro filled with partisans who make sure the party members are kept in line...
Two totalitarian regimes within a democratic environment.
Fascinating.
What is this baloney about Garth betraying people?
Has he betrayed his constituency in Bby North?
No.
Has he switched civic allegiances half a dozen times?
No
The betrayal is elsewhere. And the activists and organizers know the truth.
BETRAYAL?
Remember what happened with the 2005 Team Burnaby nominations?
Gary Begin - with a 25 year record of success in civic elections and one of the most dedidated community volunteers in the city- FAILED to secure a TB nomination. Only afterwards did a newcomer step aside to allow Gary to run, and then Gary finished in Second Place in the election.
Totally weird man. You'd almost think a BCA insider was running Team Burnaby, eh? But who believes in such consipracies? That would be crazy.
Blogger wrote:
"The betrayal is elsewhere. And the activists and organizers know the truth."
Which activists and organizers are you talking about?
Why not ask Begin Spitz and Evans?
Because they are not the ones who are saying it. You are.
A few camp followers have idolized them for decades, but they can't do squat.
Long live Chairman Leung.
Talk about crap.
Gary didn't fail 100% in 2005 with that nomination meeting. Too many just didn't want him to win so chose someone else instead, most likely.
Team Burnaby supporters are really stirring the cesspool with their own shit.
Why bother keeping on about Begin?
He's out of Team Burnaby.
Team Burnaby people on this blog are really not getting the Big Picture. They seem to be fighting the 2005 Nomination rather than doing something useful such as presenting something for the voters to vote for.
Who would want a group that constantly complains and figures it is beholden to the BC Liberals??
The goal is to vote for candidates who will best serve the interests of the city, not some idiot president of a civic party, nor the interests of Gordon Campbell.
Long Live Chairman Leung.
Indeed. What's next? "Leung Suits"?
Getting Leung's Little Red Book copied off so that every benevolent member has one?
Reciting of the Leung song "March of the Volunteers?
Might as well get those huge 10 x 20 foot protraits of him done now so that they can be paraded down Hastings Street.
Don't forget the ideaological slogans and the flags.
"Don't forget the ideological slogans and the flags."
One does not need to be well versed in politics to understand where on the ideological spectrum BCA stands on. Until they severe ties with the socialist BCNDP party, it will continue to be the radical choice for the voters while BCLIB and whoever aligns with them will continue to be the common sense choice. If they believe that only those who subscribe to BCNDP's ideologies are allowed to become its members, BCA should have realized they were marginalized from the very beginning and it is undeniable that the more voters will be showing up at the poll, the more likely our BCA will lose, especially true now with BCNDP polling below 30%. The voters will decide if they would like to see the socialist mayor stay in power or to have a new government that does not go against common-sense.
One does not need to be well versed in politics to understand where on the ideological spectrum BCA stands on."
A bit of a stretch there, since the BCA is a subset of the NDP, but to factor in socialism as applied to national policy to the civic level is just plain ignorant, since civic level politics doesn't have much room for ordinary socialist thought.
Until they severe ties with the socialist BCNDP party, it will continue to be the radical choice for the voters while BCLIB and whoever aligns with them will continue to be the common sense choice.
Well not nessesarily on both counts.
The BCA would not sever its ties with the NDP, and the BC Liberals can hardly be said to be the 'common sense' choice at the civic level.
If they believe that only those who subscribe to BCNDP's ideologies are allowed to become its members, BCA should have realized they were marginalized from the very beginning and it is undeniable that the more voters will be showing up at the poll, the more likely our BCA will lose, especially true now with BCNDP polling below 30%.
Well that polling can change. Wonder if the same thing would occur if the Liberals polled less than the NDP (which it did prior to the 1996 election).
The BCA like BC Liberals markets to a specific voter interest.
The voters will decide if they would like to see the socialist mayor stay in power or to have a new government that does not go against common-sense.
In Team Burnaby's sense, there is no common-sense, as shown by many bloggers here from that civic party.
Would still question the concept of Team Burnaby being BC Liberal since the BC Liberal Party has never passed any policy resolution to amend its constitution to include civic level parties such as Team Burnaby.
In fact why would Team Burnaby be so focused on the BC Liberals when there is also the federal Conservatives and federal Liberals who could play a part at the civic level, in other words, Team Burnaby has always touted itself as being non-partisan, but obviously that is not true now is it?
Too much emphasis on BC Liberals trying to protect their 'turf' (which actually does not exist except for the riding associations.)
It will be interesting to see what the poll numbers will be as we get closer to the 2009 election.
This perpetual "NDP is polling at 30%" is wearing a bit thin.
Would you continually reference a low poll for the BC Liberals? Probably not.
Team Burnaby does not "equal" BCLIB. BCLIB is a much larger provincial organization led by Gordon Campbell whose purpose is to see BCNDP out of power, and TB is the smaller civic party whose purpose is to see BCNDP's civic party out of power. There are great overlaps on both sides, BCA's mayor is married to a socialist candidate running to become an BCNDP backbencher, and BCLIB MLA's unanimous consent to have TB unseat the socialist mayor also goes without saying.
The debate of which of the socialist BCNDP vs. populist BCLIB is more poll friendly has been settled in 2001. BCNDP's ideology is one that will not be accepted at least for the next decade. The majority (70%) of the general electorates now oppose the socialist mayor's ideology. If they do not severe ties from the socialist strategy and mandate carrying membership with the provincial party, to elect a mayor whose ideology the majority oppose is only undemocratic. The voters will decide on his socialist association to BCNDP and they too will decide which side is the common sense choice.
The Beatle's- "Garth the No Where Man"
Garth's a real nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere Man, please listen,
You don't know what you're missin',
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command.
Garth's as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?
Nowhere Man, don't worry,
Take your time, don't hurry,
Leave it all 'till somebody else
lends you a hand.
Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere man please listen,
you don't know what your missin'
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command
Garth's a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
With that kind of silliness, why would anyone who is serious about voting vote for Team Burnaby.
Some fucked up Team Burnaby member sure has alot of extra time on his hands.
With that kind of crap, why would Garth consider a return to Team Burnaby?
I seriously doubt it's anyone from T/B. A better bet would be that the writer is one of those "activists and organizers" who left with him. One or more of them doesn't want him to be welcomed back into TEAM since they would have even less chance might not be.
I doubt one of those "activists and organizers" would write a parodoxial song against him.
Definately a Team Burnaby type.
"Some fucked up Team Burnaby member sure has alot of extra time on his hands."
Your blogging level seems to be at par with the blogger that composed that sarcastic poem against Garth.
TB has much more to gain if Garth comes back and it is apparent that is welcome, it is only the socialist bloggers associated with opposition BCNDP that are better versed in mockery for personal gains.
The fact on the ground is simple.
1. Garth Evans left the party because he believed he can defeat Mayor Corrigan by himself.
2. Garth Evans realized that he has no support from BCLIB to achieve that feat and contemplates coming back.
3. With the top three BCLIB figures in the city making their decision clear, Garth Evans' choice before him is clear and it looks like that he too believes that it will be smart unite to elect a new government altogether.
"TB has much more to gain if Garth comes back and it is apparent that is welcome, it is only the socialist bloggers associated with opposition BCNDP that are better versed in mockery for personal gains. "
Team Burnaby lambasted Garth for leaving and now they want him back?
Talk about being hypocritical.
The fact on the ground is simple.
"1. Garth Evans left the party because he believed he can defeat Mayor Corrigan by himself. "
Wrong. he left because he disagreed with the Executive in terms of being dictated to as to
decisions in council. Read the paper.
If Garth ran for Mayor either TB or Independent against Corrigan, he'd never make it.
"2. Garth Evans realized that he has no support from BCLIB to achieve that feat and contemplates coming back. "
Considering that he is a part of Burnaby North Liberals, that's hard to believe.'
3. With the top three BCLIB figures in the city making their decision clear, Garth Evans' choice before him is clear and it looks like that he too believes that it will be smart unite to elect a new government altogether."
What decisions have those three "top" BC Liberals made? Was this reported in the paper for the public to see? When?
Funny, there hasn't been anything written in either paper about these so-called 'top three' BCLIB and their decision. There was one, Harry Bloy, but everyone knows he's
out to try and bring everyone together so he can go to the Preimer and 'deliver' Burnaby in hopes that closes the gap between where he is now, and a new desk in the Office of the Minister of his choosing.
In other words, Harry wants a Cabinet Post and he's using Team Burnaby to get one.
We'll see in two to three weeks whether that works or not.
BCLIB's decision to oppose Mayor Corrigan's re-election is already clear and any further explanation would be as redundant as criticizing Mayor Corrigan's unquestioned loyalty to BCNDP.
Does Harry Bloy or Richard Lee want to have a seat in the cabinet? Of course they do. But Harry Bloy has been opposing long enough for people to believe that his opposition to Mayor Corrigan's re-election and his ideology is sincere. And no matter if it is the BCA councilor past attack on Richard Lee or the sitting mayor's spousal candidacy against John Nuraney, Harry Bloy has just been more visible than others. To say Harry Bloy is backing TB for cabinet post is too far-fetched. A more reasonable explanation would be that he simply has a different vision for Burnaby and maybe someday if circumstance allows, he may one day bring the voters the vision he has for the City of Burnaby.
Will BCLIB's call for unity work? Seeing that those opposing unity are those supporting Mayor Corrigan's re-election, it only makes sense that Councilor Evans to come back. To recite the reason, be it apparent or otherwise, right now dos not serve anyone's purpose and the party leadership has already said Evans and his friends are welcome to join the nomination battle is more than enough to prove the animosity between them has been dissipated. He too has made clear which party he will run against and is shifting focus from past to future. It should be a simple choice for him anyway if he is sure that the priority is to see the transition of power in the city hall, rather than at the TB's party leadership.
"BCLIB's decision to oppose Mayor Corrigan's re-election is already clear and any further explanation would be as redundant as criticizing Mayor Corrigan's unquestioned loyalty to BCNDP."
Has there been a formal decision that can be read by the public in the local paper?
"Does Harry Bloy or Richard Lee want to have a seat in the cabinet? Of course they do."
Every MLA does, nothing new there, but only the best make it to Cabinet. Plus geography plays a strong part.
"But Harry Bloy has been opposing long enough for people to believe that his opposition to Mayor Corrigan's re-election and his ideology is sincere."
It's also old news. Hardly a point to earn on that trip to the Cabinet post.
"And no matter if it is the BCA councilor past attack on Richard Lee or the sitting mayor's spousal candidacy against John Nuraney, Harry Bloy has just been more visible than others."
Deliberately. And of not much real value.
"To say Harry Bloy is backing TB for cabinet post is too far-fetched."
Not really. Many know he wants a cabinet post.
"A more reasonable explanation would be that he simply has a different vision for Burnaby and maybe someday if circumstance allows, he may one day bring the voters the vision he has for the City of Burnaby. "
Exactly. Emphasis on what he wants.
Nothing else matters.
"Will BCLIB's call for unity work? Seeing that those opposing unity are those supporting Mayor Corrigan's re-election, it only makes sense that Councilor Evans to come back."
That's interesting Evans leaves and literally takes Evans for a scrape along Kingsway because his leaving by Team Burnaby and now there's overtures to want him back? Hypocrisy is everywhere on that statement.
"To recite the reason, be it apparent or otherwise, right now dos not serve anyone's purpose and the party leadership has already said Evans and his friends are welcome to join the nomination battle is more than enough to prove the animosity between them has been dissipated."
Sure. Right.
He too has made clear which party he will run against and is shifting focus from past to future. It should be a simple choice for him anyway if he is sure that the priority is to see the transition of power in the city hall, rather than at the TB's party leadership.
What leadership?
This is Chairman Leung we're referring to.
"What leadership?
This is Chairman Leung we're referring to."
He is going to step down if he is to join the nomination race. Again, it was Councilor Evans' choice to put away his party membership and as Chairman Leung has stated he is welcome to come back anytime as there were never a conflict at the beginning.. So the animosity between Councilor Evans and Chairman Leung is now no more. Peace and cooperation has always been the right way to accomplish anything.
Where is Harry Bloy behind all this? True, BCLIB desires to see a new mayor elected. But I hope it is already clear that Harry Bloy is simply trying to bring everyone together. For what purpose one may be not so sure. But I am certain everyone would rather see peace than war and Harry Bloy's effort to minimize political disagreement is too something everyone will agree to support.
TB does have more to gain if Garth comes back. Unfortunately, its ego and pride that are their demise. These guys need to check their egos and pride at the door sit down and have a rationale meeting between each other to see if things can be worked out. There is already a common ground to defeat Corrigan. The Executive of TB are either current or past Federal Conservatives, Federal Liberals and NDP just like Harry and Garth.
The easiest way to defeat an opposition is by having them weak and divided. And the best way to keep the opposition weak and divided is by misinforming bloggers like us who are passionate about Burnaby right of centre politics. A party which is divided will always fall as we have seen historically in municipal, provincial and federal politics.
Who cares about the issues, like the oil spill, computer boondoggle, Pacific Gateway or dredging Burnaby Lake then. We are so enraptured and engrossed by the infighting lets just give the keys of city hall to Corrigan and continue blogging and cannibalizing the BC Libs, TB, Harry and Garth. Its more fun isn't it?
BCA supporters are not fooling anyone trying to fame the simple disagreement on the issue of how to deal with a councilor that votes with BCA between Chairman Leung vs. Councilor Evans to some meteoric clashing of partisans vs. independents. But again, they are not fooling anyone and Councilor Evans will continue to be credible within TB since he never had any major disagreement with the party itself. And you are absolutely correct as the majority of both partisan opposition and independents do want to see a change of government. But it is time to move on since I am certain voters are more interested in policy debates, unfortunately for BCA since their socialist ideology has put them at a disadvantage from the start. For an example, Mayor Corrigan thinks that sending out fliers opposing the twinning project, when he fails to realize Minister Kelvan Falcon belongs to a party that controls a budget 100 times the civic budget, is going to cause wide-spread riot against BCLIB's "anti-environment" policy but the facts on the ground have proven him wrong. It is becoming apparent that he hardly represents the majority opinion on the Gateway program and to wage a war on Minister Falcon who is well aware of BCA every action to oppose his legacy will simply further push BCA's image towards the left. The two more moderate Taiwanese candidates (two of the three rookie candidate, the other former president of the civic party) nominated by Mayor Corrigan too will lose their centrist appeal if they decide to follow Mayor Corrigan's lead to oppose Gateway program, not to mention their faithful commitment to the mayor's decision through computer-gate.
But to come back to the central issue of who Team Burnaby should nominate as the candidate opposing Mayor Corrigan. BCLIB support for TB does not automatically translate into unanimous support for Lee Rankin's mayoral bid, who admittedly is largely unelectable. Some have speculated that those opposing Lee's candidacy would like to see Harry Bloy running against Mayor Corrigan. For the sake of unity however, the party needs to look ahead to the general election and elect someone who can attract support of all sides and given the uniter image of Harry Bloy, it is thoroughly understandable he would be asked to run. Councilor Evans, and to a large extent Councilor Begin will bring many "independent" voters back to TB fold, but I sincerely believe none of that will happen if they believe Lee Rankin is nominated as the mayor.
You know that unelectable Lee topped the council polls in 2005, right?
One has to remember that unlike the council election, the mayoral election is winner-take-all where voters will vote against high negatives given Lee's LIB and NDP background. Some TB supporters may decide to vote neither of the two major party candidates if it comes to this. Harry Bloy and Richard Lee however will only have BCA supporters voting against them while motivating far more TB supporters to come out to the poll, either of whom Garth Evans has very much respect for.
It will be tricky however, since I believe both Harry and Richard are want to stay in the government for a third term by getting re-elected in 2009. But I believe either of this two BCLIB figures will be the perfect candidate this year, or 2011 past the next provincial election given their popular appeals.
So who should be the perfect candidate in 2009 on TB's side? That person has to be a uniting figure who has already organizational support on the ground. Sitting incumbents aside, I still believe former prominent cabinet minister Patty Sahota will be the perfect candidate against Mayor Corrigan, given her appeal to younger voters, immigrant voters, and female voters. It will be difficult for TB to find someone who is equally appealing to the community.
"it only makes sense that Councilor Evans to come back."
Oh yeah? Why is that? you didn't make much of a case.
and:
"To recite the reason, be it apparent or otherwise, right now dos not serve anyone's purpose."
If not right now, then when?
____________________________
I rather doubt that there is much enthusiasm in TB to have Garth or anyone else back. The organization looks to me to be moving forward quite nicely. There is a high profile dinner planned for sometime this month and I imagine there will be the usual local scribes present to take note of the health of TB. The dinner will most likely have a "coming out" of those individuals who plan to run for Council or School Board. I would bet Leung will make sure there is not a shortage of candidates for any position.
This blog site is full of happy talk about Garth and his friends going back without any need for an explanation. Get real! We are presumably talking about who is going to run the City of Burnaby after November. Are the voters going to re-elect councillors who, when they have a tiff with their colleagues, call a news conference to announce they are quitting? Is this how city hall will be run if they get back with a majority? If T/B takes them back they are dumber than I thought.
And what happens with all those other candidates who would like a shot at runnning for council? Are they supposed to step aside because Harry or Jon or Richard Lee say is is best to let Garth/Gary have another run? Whoever is writing this drivel is on drugs.
Garth did as much damage to T/B as he could when he and others rented a hotel room to announce they were quitting. They had their chance and they took their shot. But they did much worse to themselves.
Even new candidates for council and school board would be better for T/B than Garth and his friends. Their names may not be quite as well known to voters, but they also deserve their shot and I am pretty sure they will all work a lot harder and have less need of ego stroking than those who have left.
"And what happens with all those other candidates who would like a shot at runnning for council? Are they supposed to step aside because Harry or Jon or Richard Lee say is is best to let Garth/Gary have another run?"
Why not? It was orginally set to that grandfather clause in the first place. (the incumbents would not be faced with a nomination contest for their seats).
But in the end, it really should be the membership - not a select loud view on the Executive or otherwise that decide who gets a nomination or not.
Team Burnaby and a few such as previous writer are certainly not seeing the Big Picture and are being excessively protective for some reason.
If the newer want to be nominees want to contest the nomination, fine let them.
In fact here's a novel idea:
Make it a wide open contest for everyone to seek a seat.
But ultimately, it will be the voters, not Team Burnaby members that will decide who ends up on City Council.
It may not be all Team Burnaby candidates, and with the attitude displayed by some Team Burnaby supporters here, why would any one want Team Burnaby running the city?
Burnaby would be much better off with the BCA majority than a much of arrogant self-centered and conceited people who think they have Gordon Campbell's interests more at hand than that of the city at large.
It would be good for Team Burnaby to taste defeat, as in only one of them makes it to council, if that.
"as in only one of them makes it to council, if that."
Any one of Leung, Rankin, or Evans is enough to keep the mayor in check. All three together voting against the mayor with consistency will keep all of the BCA councilors present at city hall.
Why would someone want someone else, Patty Sahota, for example, to govern for a change? Firstly, change is healthy. Secondly, despite losing by single digit in 2005, they have acted as faithful opposition on Mayor Corrigan with fanfares, except for the selected few.
One can easily find shortcomings in TB, just one can find them in BCA, more easily given the nature of the governing party. I do not think TB is wrong to oppose the mayor's ideology and it too respects the mayor's socialist ideology as the polls prove there is great appeal among the voters. No one too finds the mayor at fault if his ideals align with those of Carole James.
But if TB believe it can govern better, then by all means they should market themselves and ask the voters to decide. And it should welcome criticism from across the aisle or elsewhere as BCA should too.
John/Harry/Richard should too welcome criticism from those who did not vote for them in 2005. But as Burnaby citizens, they too should support candidates they see representative of their interests. BCLIB supporters are all worth one vote each, the same applies to their leadership and its public servants. It is merely one group that supports a change of government since we know the party does not represent everyone general electorate.
Burnaby would be better off to have a new government for a change, and one hopes it will be one led by Patty Sahota. That I believe will be a historic victory and that government should also welcome opposition from Taiwanese BCA councilors or then former government finance chair. But the voters will decide if they want to have a historic change of government. And they too will decide between the apparent ideals that mayor believes and the populist reform supported by TB.
Maybe more too, but I think Raymond Leung will win and he will make a good council member. He has done a very important job to clean up trouble makers in Team Burnaby and he will do a very good job on council of Burnaby.
So it's decided! Patty Sahota for mayor. Lee and Garth kiss and make up. Then, the new Burnaby Lake rowing facility will become a new sports tourism resort, and we build a new private-public-partnership hospital.
The future is so grand!
We should all march in step.
Patti Sahota would be the worst choice for Mayor (but Team Burnaby has a habit of making bad choices in running itself). Sahota is hardly a prominent person since she was a last minute Cabinet Minister (she got that because of convenience rather than a real need). She couldn't even hang on to her own riding and riding association.
Raymond Leung has nothing to offer Burnaby voters, so he'll lose (and his idiotic statements in the local paper won't help him win either).
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