Saturday, April 05, 2008

You are the weakest link...

50 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raymond Leung needs to think long and hard what he needs to do next. Chairing the party of one really does not give him much privileges of staying "principled".

It may be true that "people are lining up" to become candidates according to Raymond Leung and I do think all talents should be welcomed to run under TB. But he is taking on the wrong side. Taking on three councilors at the same time in the next elections with BCA standing aside watching may very well mean BCA may win more seats than they did in 2002.

Gary Begin's departure is nowhere nearing as damaging as the only reason for Garth Evans to leave was the lack of consensus to endorse him as next mayoral candidate against Derek Corrigan. Considering an alliance with Gary Begin that he has scorned before will too make lose much credibility for Garth Evans.

. There continues to be a lack of consensus between the "right-wing" coalition, as the paper calls it, in fielding a single mayoral candidate against BCA. A split-party nomination strategy has failed in Vancouver and that should certainly not be tried again.

But I continue to think that there is still chance for reconciliation for TB. The disagreement between Lee Rankin and the rest have been on the party leadership. Losing out councilors over the prospect of gaining power should have the party members and leadership rethinking the direction they are heading towards. Despite the animosity against each other, I think the three councilors who used to sit together in council meetings opposite to BCA, now independently of each other but still opposed should have a talk much needed for their re-election regarding the party leadership and the next TB mayoral candidate pick.

Even if Garth Evans believes that seniority on city council does not grant Lee Rankin the right to run for the mayor, it is still not wise to quit the party just for this. Similar instance had happened in Vancouver where two Vancouver NPA councilors were right at each other before Gordon Campbell stepped in to parachute Carole Taylor resulting in both harmony and victory that follows while the split has lost COPE city office six months later.

Thus, for the three TB councilors to claim victories, it will be crucial for them to reach a consensus on the mayoral candidate to endorse. A candidate with independence with all sides, credibility city wide and competence recognized by the party members should be the primary requirements. Prominent figures who would like to see a transition of power such as Richard Lee should probably get involved to invite these two TB councilors and other important members back and unite the party or otherwise that transition may very well not happen. Having three sitting councilors on the team in addition to candidates discovered from their search in the multicultural community will be more powerful Lee Rankin leading a group of new talents trying to fend off two sides that want to see none of them getting anaywhere close to hall.In Victoria Alan Lowe was able to unite his support when he ran against a powerful NDP civic party in Victoria when he was first elected and after getting elected twice, during his term in office, that civic party has finally dissolved itself just last year after years in existence. I believe if Richard Lee can lead three TB councilors and the other five TB candidates against a troubled BCA whose mayor has already asked his past appointee to resign, I do think he has the chance match Alan Lowe's achievement in office in a city that has seen its minority popularity over half of the city's own

4/05/2008 9:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The previous poster talks about a consensus in TB.

Mathematically speaking, the consensus seems to be that two of them would prefer to work without the third.

If Evans and Begin join forces, the non-NDP (minus the ex-NDP) would have an instant party, with electoral credibility, despite Burnaby Politics' repeated slurs against the two.

By the way, my weekend NOW didn't arrive, and the Evans story is not on their website. Did they miss this story completely? If so, that's almost as pathetic as their hatchet job on Saggu.

4/05/2008 2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is not hard to understand the anger towards Gary Begin's departure, especially those who put in their hear and mind into building the party. Those arent words of slurs, but rather words of
disappointment. As someone with years of community service, Gary is a well respected member not only within in the party, but city wide. chairing with BCA on various committees and trying to exhibit his independence at the same time by voting with the mayor have created unnecessary misunderstanding within the party. But without peace and cooperation, nothing can be accomplished.

Nothing is stopping either councilors from creating or joining a new right-wing party, but history has shown that a split in 2002 has resulted in electing a 90% BCA council + Lee Rankin which wont be something they desire to see. For these three passionate councilors to serve for the city again, the more practical step is for the new leadership of the party to invite them back and have consensus on a a candidate such as Richard T. Lee that is able to both be respected by all these three party elders and be able to out poll Derek Corrigan.

4/05/2008 3:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm...a couple of weeks ago, the opportunistic Gary Begin was leaving TEAM Burnaby because it was allegedly too much controlled by backroom provincial Liberals. Now, he's madly fallen in love with B.C. Liberal riding vice-president Garth Evans who himself just a few months ago was complaining about Begin supporting the NDP's attacks on pet projects like Gateway. It's interesting that the Bloy/Evans puppets who were yanked from the TEAM board are all prominent provincial Liberals. So I guess it is a sleazy marriage of convenience between B.C. Liberal Evans and his backers and legendary B.C. Liberal basher Gary Begin. And of course Derek Corrigan would love to run against the stumblebum Evans -- he would be Corrigan's dream opponent; Corrigan could sleepwalk through the next election against such a pompous, pretentious airhead. I wonder how long the Evans/Begin marriage of convenience will last?

4/05/2008 3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hear that the Evans' press conference was a stunning success. It was thronged by, what was it, one insignificant reporter. And there was, of course, the disgruntled, losing candidate who likes to blame the Asian community and Asian candidates for the loss, rather than looking into the mirror. And don't forget the former TEAM official who was angry that Asian Canadians should be allowed to participate in civic politics. Maybe this group of power-lusters and malcontents can call themselves the "White Pride" party.

4/05/2008 3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And which councilor would the most prominent provincial Liberal member endorse to run against Derek Corrigan. If there is anyone who is NOT a provincial Liberal supporter in the party then that will be interesting. What propelled provincial Liberals to power in Victoria was the unity required to oppose NDP, and if as you may be suggesting the provincial Liberals are migrating, then I certainly think there are better ways to carry out the process more gracefully than this chaos.

4/05/2008 3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I hear that the Evans' press conference was a stunning success. It was thronged by, what was it, one insignificant reporter. And there was, of course, the disgruntled, losing candidate who likes to blame the Asian community and Asian candidates for the loss, rather than looking into the mirror. And don't forget the former TEAM official who was angry that Asian Canadians should be allowed to participate in civic politics. Maybe this group of power-lusters and malcontents can call themselves the "White Pride" party."

Interesting given the nature of the president overlooking the party. You dont mean to suggest that it is a racist party when they included Asian candidates on their team last time with one almost getting elected. True, the council requires wider representation, and if required this sort of "white supremacy" mentality as suggested by the previous poster in the party need to be thrown along with those supporting it and have a party that backs candidates like Richard Lee against Mayor Corrigan would certainly be the first step towards harmony mandatory for victories.

4/05/2008 3:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aside from all the rhetoric, one basic premise remains.

Team Burnaby needs to look at itself.

It needs to get some real leadership, not the power hungry people it largely has.

It also needs to get away from this silly notion that the Board can tell the councillors what to do
in terms of voting. Neither the federal ridings or the provincial ridings tell their respective represenatives how they must vote on a particular item.

Looks like its back to what Team Burnaby was in the late 1990's, headed by a few who figured they were alot.

"And which councilor would the most prominent provincial Liberal member endorse to run against Derek Corrigan" and other silly notions, aside. Richard hasn'tsaid anything on that subject yet.


It would help if Lee Rankin got away from his "I'm the best Councillor there is" thinking and look in the mirror.

He could be riding alone.

Team Burnaby can only blame themselves on this.

Surprised that Team Burnaby lasted this long though.

They didn't even make it to the end of the term.

Pathetic.

4/05/2008 4:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Congrats to the Burnaby NOW for their fine coverage of this story, and their very thorough update on the Saggu story. My earlier complaints have been adequately mollified (for the time being).

4/05/2008 4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More like you were going off on something before checking first.

Nothing was witheld or missed.

The Evans story was also covered in the Burnaby News Leader's Thrusday's edition.

4/05/2008 4:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It would help if Lee Rankin got away from his "I'm the best Councillor there is" thinking and look in the mirror.
He could be riding alone.
Team Burnaby can only blame themselves on this."

In terms of experiences, he does outrank the other two TB councilors by far. He was never the one that forced out the other two councilors and he certainly hopes to see unity within the party.

I hope Richard Lee, a uniter rather than a divider, will lead the party and all three councilors and other candidates that will be coming out from the multicultural in the next election against BCA. The election is going to be held more than 6 months from now and no one truly knows which side will claim victory at the end, that is why we have elections. Maybe it is time for a change for TB, and for the city.

4/05/2008 6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It would help if Lee Rankin got away from his "I'm the best Councillor there is" thinking and look in the mirror.
He could be riding alone.
Team Burnaby can only blame themselves on this."

In terms of experiences, he does outrank the other two TB councilors by far. He was never the one that forced out the other two councilors and he certainly hopes to see unity within the party.

I hope Richard Lee, a uniter rather than a divider, will lead the party and all three councilors and other candidates that will be coming out from the multicultural in the next election against BCA. The election is going to be held more than 6 months from now and no one truly knows which side will claim victory at the end, that is why we have elections. Maybe it is time for a change for TB, and for the city.

4/05/2008 6:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In terms of experiences, he does outrank the other two TB councilors by far. He was never the one that forced out the other two councilors and he certainly hopes to see unity within the party. "


Goodbye to that idea. Lee isn't
the problem, its with a few of his supporters. With the recent attitude of T/B's President and a few of their supporters (including a few who post here), unity is a dead issue. Why would anyone want to be a part of T/B now?

"I hope Richard Lee, a uniter rather than a divider, will lead the party and all three councilors and other candidates that will be coming out from the multicultural in the next election against BCA.

Richard has better things to do. Richard would not lead T/B.


"The election is going to be held more than 6 months from now and no one truly knows which side will claim victory at the end, that is why we have elections. Maybe it is time for a change for TB, and for the city.

TB has to change a huge amount from the mess they have gotten themselves in.

They have lost all credibility in the minds of many potential supporters.

It will be up to Team Burnaby to figure out they want to do next, and fix the mess they are now in, not anyone else.

4/05/2008 6:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I haven't spoken to Begin, Evans or Spitz, but judging from their actions, it appears that they believe Rankin is at least part of problem with TB.

The trio could be among the BVA partisans who still suspect their former NDP compatriot of being the source of the Andrew Stewart drunk driving story - despite Canwest's best repeated attempt to blame it on Corrigan.

With the trio out of TB, I strongly suspect we will have a third party enter the November election.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the new BVA - or whatever it's called - refused to run a mayoral candidate?

So, would that be viewed as a tacit endorsement of Rankin or Corrigan?

4/05/2008 7:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I haven't spoken to Begin, Evans or Spitz, but judging from their actions, it appears that they believe Rankin is at least part of problem with TB.

TB's problems are far larger than that with Rankin.

The trio could be among the BVA partisans who still suspect their former NDP compatriot of being the source of the Andrew Stewart drunk driving story - despite Canwest's best repeated attempt to blame it on Corrigan.

That old thing again? These "could" type of suppositions are getting a bit lame. Why would Rankin self destruct his own mayor candidate? The BCA most likely on their own dug up the information, but blame Stewart for not coming forward on that one to begin with.

Team Burnaby is getting too rigidly controlled by a chosen few
who simply want the power to tell
councillors what they should do.

They're hardly democratic when it comes to the membership being able to choose who is a candidate.


With the trio out of TB, I strongly suspect we will have a third party enter the November election.

No shit, Sherlock. But it most likely would not be a party but most likely a combining of efforts.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the new BVA - or whatever it's called - refused to run a mayoral candidate?

Wouldn't it be hilarious if who ever wrote that dumb statement actually proved to be smart and looked seriously as to why team Burnaby is in the mess it is in?

Should say alot when a few Directors depart T/B, especially
those who have been around civic
parties for a long time.


"So, would that be viewed as a tacit endorsement of Rankin or Corrigan?"

Or, none of the above.

They would most likely say something along the lines of

"let the voters decide", and leave it at that. That would be the smart way to go.

Anything else is just burying the attention needed to the real problem here, the workings of T/B and why they have lost credibility.

In other words, look in the mirror
before blaming someone else.

4/05/2008 7:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again, look west and see how the split of COPE has lost the elections for both parties even though they have already inter-nominate & endorse the same mayoral candidate and they were the governing party. And a third party resulted from a split of an opposition party, in our civic election will certainly result in BCA's landslide win as what happened in 2002, just to reiterate.

And while I do not like to repeat myself, if the councilors all have problems with the party leadership, I do think a new leadership for TB that can unite the support for transition of power should be reinstalled and again have a mayoral candidate that is a uniter. Given the length of time before teh election, it is entirely possible for TB to present united front campaign team with a new leadership that the voters are searching for. Good things I am sure will come with change.

4/05/2008 8:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let the voters decide?
Look in the mirror?

And this from somebody who writes fictionalized comments from both Corrigan and Rankin?

The hilarity continues.

4/05/2008 8:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The hilarity continues.


Especially from Team Burnaby.

A united new front from Team Burnaby? Not going to happen unless the entire Executive including the President is replaced.

That isn't going to happen any time soon.

The only good thing that will come with change, is hopefully some of those who are blindly loyal to what
currently exists in Team Burnaby will actually have political reality hit them, and hit them hard.

4/05/2008 9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The hilarity does continue...

Other than Raymond Leung as President, do we know who the other Executives are? Can we pre-judge people who we don't know? They could be our next door neighbours for all we know.

I am not political but this is getting ridiculous. As an ordinary Burnaby voter who just wants change because of the Burnaby computer boondoggle and the oil spill lawsuits, both sides better get your childish acts together or the Burnaby taxpayer will suffer for another 3 years!

4/05/2008 11:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see another blogger has beat me to this point, but this site has frequently criticized T/B for its close ties to the BC liberals (Bloz Boys, Back room Liberals etc.) Gary Begone mentioned it among his reasons for leaving. Welllllllllll.... guess what? All those BCLP types have now split to be with Gary and he apparently is thrilled. Kind of funny eh? Harry Bloy and his minions are now planning to make Gary Begone a star.

4/06/2008 12:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And if Harry joins up with Gary Garth and Barbara - as if they ever parted company - where does that leave Mr Rankin?
Oh yeah, he OWNS Team Burnaby.
I wonder how much that costs?

send in the clowns

4/06/2008 12:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Send in the clowns alright...it's hilarious to see Evans link up with B.C. Liberal basher Begin. For Evans, supporters and well-wishers are like wives...to be used and discarded on his way to the top.

4/06/2008 10:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its no wonder citizens are apathetic and cynical about politics and politicians. Here is a perfect example.

This is why the BCA wins not because they are popular but because of the only 20% of the eligible voters who vote are the organized unionists who live in Burnaby and have more at stake.

Now we get our property taxes increased and listen to same socialist rhetoric for many more years to come.

Thanks for nothing.

4/06/2008 10:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not exactly true, many non unionists vote the BCA, simply because they see stablility, despite Corrigan's trademark arrogance.


So Gary is a "BC Liberal" basher is he now? What brought that on?

Gary has been very supportive of Richard Lee.

Team Burnaby should do themselves a favour.

Look in the mirror. They'll see the main reason for the mess they are in now.

4/06/2008 2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the comments by the poster (on 4/05/2008 at 7.23 p.m.) ARE THE WORKS OF A VERY SICK PERSON. MAY GOD GIVE YOU SOME PEACE AND HELP.

4/06/2008 4:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Not exactly true, many non unionists vote the BCA, simply because they see stablility, despite Corrigan's trademark arrogance."

Stability!? I think the only ones that have observed stability over the mayor's last term are those that want to see a pure BCA government. Fortunately, they belong in the minority. Not even mayor himself which side he stands on popular opinions without polls of support.

But with a split opposition, our mayor may very well get elected again in 2011 if he can wipe out the opposition this time around and the possibility of BCA governing for another decade should give these councilors a second thought about unity.

So the conflicts are about party leadership and mayoral candidate. Some prominent like Richard Lee may be the only one to bring the party together. The writ is not close to being dropped yet and if Richard Lee can achieve this feat, then with the support he gets from both the civic party and provincial party, it will be pretty much impossible for the mayor to hold off in the November election.

4/06/2008 4:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Stability!? I think the only ones that have observed stability over the mayor's last term are those that want to see a pure BCA government."

Some do, but the voters unless they see a real need for change aren't going to turnover an incumbent government.

In fact why vote for Team Burnaby which obviously can't get its shit together?

The recent events are a black mark on Team Burnaby, and by what the voters have seen, Team Burnaby is far from being ready to establish itself as a civic elector group of government.

"But with a split opposition, our mayor may very well get elected again in 2011 if he can wipe out the opposition this time around and the possibility of BCA governing for another decade should give these councilors a second thought about unity. "

Team Burnaby should also give themselves a second thought. The problem isn't with the councillors, it is with how Team Burnaby and how it operates.

"So the conflicts are about party leadership and mayoral candidate."

Partially. The Mayoralty candidate does not (or shouldn't) get his hands into the party, but if that is how the BCA operates, so be it.

Team Burnaby could have done better, but obvioulsy didn't.

"Some prominent like Richard Lee may be the only one to bring the party together."

Richard has better things to do.


"The writ is not close to being dropped yet and if Richard Lee can achieve this feat, then with the support he gets from both the civic party and provincial party, it will be pretty much impossible for the mayor to hold off in the November election."

Why would Corrigan "hold off"? Besides Richard already has support from the civic side of things and the BC Liberals. Not to mention the support he has from the Burnaby Douglas Liberals and COnservatives, so he doesn't need to get involved in some kind of help in towing Team Burnaby out of the ravine they ran into.

4/06/2008 5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Three more BCA councilors elected and our Mayor is guaranteed another six years. And if Richard Lee and Harry Bloy think that is not going to affect their election campaigns then they must be blind. Given the nature of BCA members, do they actually dream about endorsement from a single BCA councilor?

It is not about Richard Lee towing the party out of the mud, rather, it is about saving both the civic party and provincial liberals in Bby Douglas from losing out. If he can pull together Babara and the three sitting TB councilors and install four more independent candidates, very likely young and multi-cultural, onto the party slate, such a team led by Richard Lee will be very powerful. And even there is something better to do, it certainly does not beat victories against a powerful mayor.

4/06/2008 5:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Three more BCA councilors elected and our Mayor is guaranteed another six years."

Three years. The term is three years, not six.

"And if Richard Lee and Harry Bloy think that is not going to affect their election campaigns then they must be blind."

More accurately, who really cares
if it effects Harry Bloy's chances?

Richard has been in shallow waters
since he was first elected.

The NDP will gain strength, no question. The reality is that Harry will probably have to face a stronger NDP than he has before. He's had it easy, and now let's see
how he does with a strong NDP hunting him down. The hunter becomes the hunted.

"Given the nature of BCA members, do they actually dream about endorsement from a single BCA councilor?"

Dumb question. Endorsement don't mean squat in politics anymore except to the endorsor and the person getting it.

"It is not about Richard Lee towing the party out of the mud, rather, it is about saving both the civic party and provincial liberals in Bby Douglas from losing out."

There is no provincial riding called Burnaby Douglas.

The mess is caused by Team Burnaby and not by anyone else.


"If he can pull together Babara and the three sitting TB councilors and install four more independent candidates, very likely young and multi-cultural, onto the party slate, such a team led by Richard Lee will be very powerful. "

More philosophising again. First it was "if Harry Bloy can bring the Anti-NDP together". Now it's
Richard.

As for the threesitting TB councillors, they don't exist as three. There is only one.


"And even there is something better to do, it certainly does not beat victories against a powerful mayor."

Yes it does. For the general population, but sadly not for the political hacks who spend alot of time on silly 'what if' scenarios.

4/06/2008 7:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A BCA sweep in November will probably help Lee and Bloy as people will look at keeping a balance between NDP civically and BCL provincially.

4/07/2008 10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No it won't because the two are not related.

There's also one other scenario that is missing.

Supposed Bloy is defeated in the new riding he wants so badly?

The NDP will most likely focus on that riding since the southern half of it is a large part of the current Edmonds riding.

No riding is safe.

With Bloy, the hunter becomes the hunted.

4/07/2008 10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BCA's success in winning civic elections which see a much smaller turnout did contribute to the long time presence of NDP MP's representing both Burnaby federal ridings even though they dont come close to having a mandate. But we all know the reasons why BCNDP was wiped out in 2001. But even with seven NDP councilors, none of whom even attempted to get nominated by BCNDP, Mayor Corrigan shows that he simply could not beat BCL in elections with high turn out, only able to unseat just one BCL MLA, albeit a junior cabinet minister.

If some are so sure that BCNDP has Harry Bloy's riding in the bag, then our mayor should simply announce his intention now to challenge Harry Bloy and as our resident blogger has suggested try to dethrone Carole James afterwards. But given the turn out rate of provincial elections, with two fewer councilors by his side, Mayor Corrigan probably has not a chance in any of the BCL incumbent ridings, let alone trying to become the next NDP premier. Even with a split TB, provincial liberals will most definitely continue to unite during provincial elections. The fact is no one is safe.

But if Harry Bloy and Richard Lee continue to let the party split, they will be in for much tougher fight, tougher than 2005 when people still wanted to vote against NDP government. And if they try stay away from civic elections letting BCA walk over TB to elect a council without opposition, then unlike 2005 when BCA/NDP didnt have the confidence to obtain majority in Victoria, they will face much stronger opposition, much tougher if BCA decisively win the next election in a landslide.

4/08/2008 11:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BCA's success in winning civic elections which see a much smaller turnout did contribute to the long time presence of NDP MP's representing both Burnaby federal ridings even though they dont come close to having a mandate.

Wrong. Each does have a mandate.

That mandate was provided to each NDP MP by the voting public in the 2005/06 federal election. Each won by majority vote.

But we all know the reasons why BCNDP was wiped out in 2001.

Basic premise, the citizens wanted change and received it. All governments eventually get defeated. BC Social Credit ran for much longer than the recent NDP government and was defeated in
1991.

The same thing will eventually happen to the BC Liberals.

"But even with seven NDP councilors, none of whom even attempted to get nominated by BCNDP.

There are 5 NDP affiliated councillors two independent non NDP affiliated councilliors and one Team Burnaby councillor.

The five were indeed nominated by BC NDP members since membership in the BC NDP is required for being a member of the BCA.

Get your facts straight.

"Mayor Corrigan shows that he simply could not beat BCL in elections with high turn out, only able to unseat just one BCL MLA,

Corrigan was not a participant in the Burnaby provincial election. State specifically where he was found to be.

"albeit a junior cabinet minister.

Far lower than a junior cabinet Minister, Patti Sahota was given that useless post as a last ditch resort to save her seat. But it didn't work.

If some are so sure that BCNDP has Harry Bloy's riding in the bag, then our mayor should simply announce his intention now to challenge Harry Bloy and as our resident blogger has suggested try to dethrone Carole James afterwards.

Corrigan doesn't need or want to run in Harry Bloy's riding. Why would he, if it's found the NDP will be Opposition once again? The NDP will most likely find someone to go against Harry Bloy, someone who would be better than the person who ran against him in Burquitlam. That NDP candidate was weak.


But given the turn out rate of provincial elections, with two fewer councilors by his side, Mayor Corrigan probably has not a chance in any of the BCL incumbent ridings, let alone trying to become the next NDP premier.

Who says he wants to be the next NDP Premier? Has he stated that?


Even with a split TB, provincial liberals will most definitely continue to unite during provincial elections.

There's no 'uniting' since there is nothing to unite at the provincial level as there is only one provincial party at the moment.



The fact is no one is safe.

But if Harry Bloy and Richard Lee continue to let the party split, they will be in for much tougher fight, tougher than 2005 when people still wanted to vote against NDP government.

Very true. The NDP will regain strength as they were very noticeably weak in 2005. If the local NDP does regain strength at the provincial level, and they will at some time in the future, then Richard and Bloy will quickly know they will have to campaign under real conditions, not the easy conditions they have enjoyed.

"And if they try stay away from civic elections letting BCA walk over TB to elect a council without opposition, then unlike 2005 when BCA/NDP didnt have the confidence to obtain majority in Victoria, they will face much stronger opposition, much tougher if BCA decisively win the next election in a landslide.

Very true.

it's happened before and will happen again.

If the NDP regains their strength to what it is traditionaly, then things will get very interesting indeed.



Richard and Harry (and John) have had two easy elections.

Now it may come that they will have to go through a real election with real opposition. An election
where they will have to really fight for their political lives far
more than each has ever done before.

Be there when it happens.

4/09/2008 8:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Richard and Harry (and John) have had two easy elections."

Give us a break! Perhaps you mean they SHOULD HAVE HAD two easy elections - very different thing. In fact these two won by a COMBINED margin of about 400 votes. And what are they doing now? One is up to his ponytail in undermining Team Burnaby because they refuse to fall in line to his BCLP buddies. The other one? He is sitting around while his "Accidental Councillor" constituency VP acts like a petulant child. ("It's no secret I was thinking of running for Mayor")

Meanwhile both ridings got tougher under redistributiion. Is it going to be harder for these two MLA's to get re elected? Duh.

4/09/2008 10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give us a break! Perhaps you mean they SHOULD HAVE HAD two easy elections - very different thing.

Nope, sorry. They won when the NDP was unusally weak. Both times.

The 2001 election was easy for them since it was transition time from the NDP to the BC Liberals, and they won because of that. That
happeed in quite a few ridings.

In 2005, the NDP was weak noticeably and because of that the
two BCL candidates had a relatively easy time in gettting elected compared to what they would have faced with a traditional
strong NDP in Burnaby. They haven't see the NDP at their strongest best yet, but they might next year..

In fact these two won by a COMBINED margin of about 400 votes.

Kinda tells you what kind of campaign they had, if they can only win by 400 votes between them.

Both lost quite a bit from their 2001 results. Harry more than Richard.

"And what are they doing now? One is up to his ponytail in undermining Team Burnaby because they refuse to fall in line to his BCLP buddies. "

Who would that be? Has to be Harry because Richard doesn't have a ponytail. And it would be odd for Harry to undermine Team Burnaby since it was help from him and his buddies that started that thing in the first place.


"The other one? He is sitting around while his "Accidental Councillor" constituency VP acts like a petulant child. ("It's no secret I was thinking of running for Mayor") "

That has to be Richard. Garth is
VP of his riding association, but so what? Being VP of a riding does not have any relationship to one being a councillor. Garth's a good guy. A little green at the civic level, but everyone who gets elected starts out that way.

Team Burnaby caused it's own dilemma.

"Meanwhile both ridings got tougher under redistributiion."

Too bad about that, isn't it? It's based on demographics and spatial distribution of the populance, and not anything to do with political results.

They will have to run in the new ridings, no question.

If they don't like that, so what?
Don't run again. If they figure they can get re-elected, go for it.


"Is it going to be harder for these two MLA's to get re elected? Duh."

Sure is, but so what? They'll have to face re-election and if it gets tougher for them, so what? They aren't owed any easy ride to re-election. No politician is owed that.

No politician is deserving of being 'saved' by the voters.

They don't 'own' the ridings, and Harry certainly does not 'own' the Conservative/Liberal side of politics in Burnaby.

4/09/2008 11:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" There are 5 NDP affiliated councillors two independent non NDP affiliated councilliors and one Team Burnaby councillor.
The five were indeed nominated by BC NDP members since membership in the BC NDP is required for being a member of the BCA."
Seven BCA councilors were elected in 2002, Doug Evans, Pietro Calendino, Dan Johnston, Celeste Redman, Nick Volkow, Sav Dhaliwal and Colleen Jordan. Many of whom ran for re-election in November 2005.

But I guess that didnt do BCNDP much good when they tried to unseat BCL incumbents in May 2005, that is especially true for Pietro Calendino given how noticeably "weak" NDP really is. With seven BCA councilors on the council during last provincial election, and three out of the four Burnaby ridings were successfully defended.

"Mayor Corrigan shows that he simply could not beat BCL in elections with high turn out, only able to unseat just one BCL MLA,

Corrigan was not a participant in the Burnaby provincial election. State specifically where he was found to be.

"Corrigan doesn't need or want to run in Harry Bloy's riding. Why would he, if it's found the NDP will be Opposition once again? The NDP will most likely find someone to go against Harry Bloy, someone who would be better than the person who ran against him in Burquitlam. That NDP candidate was weak."
Strong candidate as in one of the incumbent councilors ready to BCA nomination meeting this May? If all five of them decide to run for re-elections in addition to risk-averse Mayor Corrigan, then Harry Bloy may very well not even be touched. Will Pietro Calendino try to unseat Richard Lee again and skip BCA nomination race? Even if it is very possible Richard Lee can get unseated, that is unlikely to happen. BCA members are not known for joining risky races when they believe they can just cakewalk to their re-election victories. But in terms of provincial elections, BCL will continue unite in opposition to BCNDP and BCGN will likely again help keep BCNDP away from wining these ridings.

But even if Richard Lee and Harry Bloy do get elected next to a purely BCA city council, they will as they did in 2005 have no base of power to work with. And certainly they will not be getting much help from Gordon Campbell who, if able to convince SFU chancellor to step down and get elected as the finance minister in waiting, may very well ask Harry Bloy to step aside from any star candidate to come along. Richard Lee's position is no better . But as the most prominent Chinese Canadian figure in Burnaby, I think it is time for him to consider running for mayor as Alan Lowe did in Victoria when he single-handedly brought down an NDP civic party with his personal popularity. It will be nice to see Mayor Richard Lee to construct a pro-mayor voting bloc by working with several BCA councilors who are willing to follow his leadership as Diane Watts did in Surrey who took about a year to build up a majority on the council.

4/09/2008 5:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" There are 5 NDP affiliated councillors two independent non NDP affiliated councilliors and one Team Burnaby councillor.
The five were indeed nominated by BC NDP members since membership in the BC NDP is required for being a member of the BCA."
Seven BCA councilors were elected in 2002, Doug Evans, Pietro Calendino, Dan Johnston, Celeste Redman, Nick Volkow, Sav Dhaliwal and Colleen Jordan. Many of whom ran for re-election in November 2005.

Celeste Redman did not win a seat.
Doug Evans did not contest for a
seat in 2005.


But I guess that didnt do BCNDP much good when they tried to unseat BCL incumbents in May 2005, that is especially true for Pietro Calendino given how noticeably "weak" NDP really is.

Noticeably weak the NDP was.


With seven BCA councilors on the council during last provincial election, and three out of the four Burnaby ridings were successfully defended.

You're comparing oranges to pomegrants. Compare oranges to oranges.

I would not say the four Burnaby ridings were successfully defended. One was lost, the other three kept, but with significant
reduction in vote counts.


"Mayor Corrigan shows that he simply could not beat BCL in elections with high turn out, only able to unseat just one BCL MLA,

Corrigan was not a participant in the Burnaby provincial election. State specifically where he was found to be.

"Corrigan doesn't need or want to run in Harry Bloy's riding. Why would he, if it's found the NDP will be Opposition once again? The NDP will most likely find someone to go against Harry Bloy, someone who would be better than the person who ran against him in Burquitlam. That NDP candidate was weak."
Strong candidate as in one of the incumbent councilors ready to BCA nomination meeting this May?

Doesn't specifically need to be the BCA in terms of candidates for the provincial election. The candidates come from the Nomination Committees of the local NDP ridings, not the BCA.

"If all five of them decide to run for re-elections in addition to risk-averse Mayor Corrigan, then Harry Bloy may very well not even be touched. "

You're assuming a transfer from council to provincial, which does not nessesarily happen in this day and age.

"Will Pietro Calendino try to unseat Richard Lee again and skip BCA nomination race?"

Probably, but probably not.


"Even if it is very possible Richard Lee can get unseated, that is unlikely to happen. "

It very well could. Richard's seat is not solid BCL.


BCA members are not known for joining risky races when they believe they can just cakewalk to their re-election victories.

One would not call Burnaby North risky. It's actually a winnable seat for the NDP, since it has been NDP for much longer than it has been BCL.

"But in terms of provincial elections, BCL will continue unite in opposition to BCNDP and BCGN will likely again help keep BCNDP away from wining these ridings."

Nothing to unite from since the BCL is a monopoly with Conservative Liberal voters, plus a few Greenies.


"But even if Richard Lee and Harry Bloy do get elected next to a purely BCA city council,"

Niether are running for council. Both will be seeking election in their respective new ridings.


"they will as they did in 2005 have no base of power to work with."

They have their volunteer pool.

"And certainly they will not be getting much help from Gordon Campbell who, if able to convince SFU chancellor to step down and get elected as the finance minister in waiting, may very well ask Harry Bloy to step aside from any star candidate to come along."

Harry wouldn't do that unless he's given something equal to MLA pay.

"Richard Lee's position is no better . But as the most prominent Chinese Canadian figure in Burnaby, I think it is time for him to consider running for mayor as Alan Lowe did in Victoria when he single-handedly brought down an NDP civic party with his personal popularity."

Richard is not Mayor material. He's a nice guy but he is very difficult at times to understand and does not have a complete grasp of how civic government works, but he's sharp and can learn fast.

"It will be nice to see Mayor Richard Lee to construct a pro-mayor voting bloc by working with several BCA councilors who are willing to follow his leadership as Diane Watts did in Surrey who took about a year to build up a majority on the council."

Remote chance of that happening. The first step would be to complete dump the Board of Team Burnaby and get people in there who actually care about the city rather than their own power and influence.

But that's not going to happen.

4/09/2008 8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The first step would be to complete dump the Board of Team Burnaby and get people in there who actually care about the city rather than their own power and influence."

From what I do know about the remaining people on the Board, I don't really feel that was a fair comment. Do you know who these people are to make a comment like that.

These are fathers and mothers, Burnaby community activist volunteers, accountants, lawyers, real estate agents and insurance salesmen all from Burnaby and taking time out of their busy lives to volunteer in this political party. It is a diversified board of Chinese, Italians, East Indians and Anglos. They are your typical Jack and Jill Burnaby constituents.

This would be like me saying we should dump the Canucks because they have too many Swedes and a goalie that cared more about his wife in Florida.

Many of the Board members have also supported and volunteered for Richard and Harry Provincially and for you to say something as stupid as that why should I bust my ass to help them in the future.

You talk about the handful of votes that Richard and Harry won by in the last election and all the help that they need in the next election. Well you've just insulted a lot of Richard's and Harry's volunteers with your comments. I support Richard and Harry but I still have faith in TB. With those type of comments I've lost respect for Richard and Harry and prefer to watch my goalie and the Canucks in May 2009 on TV.

4/09/2008 11:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You talk about the handful of votes that Richard and Harry won by in the last election and all the help that they need in the next election. Well you've just insulted a lot of Richard's and Harry's volunteers with your comments. I support Richard and Harry but I still have faith in TB. With those type of comments I've lost respect for Richard and Harry and prefer to watch my goalie and the Canucks in May 2009 on TV."

Why would you do that based on comments from someone who did not care about much TB from the very beginning anyway. Certainly these members are as passionate about politics as those that have splitted from TB. But after the recent conflict within TB, it is important to repair the damage that has been done before they nominate councilors to run against their former comrades. It will make more sense to have someone like Richard Lee who is popular in all sides to chair the party and invite the councilors back after reaching a consensus on the mayoral candidate and have the nomination race that includes Barbara afterwards who will no doubt cakewalk to nomination in addition to four other minority candidates that is able to attract younger voters and immigrants, someone like Richard Lee.

4/10/2008 6:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where does all this talk come from about "bringing back" T/B councillors and directors who have left? No one wants them back. Let them get on with nominating themselves for council. Along with their departure went the last of the unhealthy over-invlovement by certain BC Liberal Party elements. Garth "I'm tired of being push around" Evans can try to identify himself as an independent if he wants but he regularly brags about his connections to the BCLP. He is currently Richard Lee's right hand man in Burnaby North.

Barb Spitz can try to position herself as an independent, but she has now completed the circuit through all four of Burnaby's Liberal riding associations as a director trying to drum up support. Try peddling those credentials to the voters as an independent.

4/10/2008 9:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Where does all this talk come from about "bringing back" T/B councillors and directors who have left? No one wants them back. Let them get on with nominating themselves for council. Along with their departure went the last of the unhealthy over-invlovement by certain BC Liberal Party elements. Garth "I'm tired of being push around" Evans can try to identify himself as an independent if he wants but he regularly brags about his connections to the BCLP. He is currently Richard Lee's right hand man in Burnaby North."

Being the only opposition to the civic NDP party, is it of any surprise that all three councilors have deep BCLIB connections? If some from BCA really want to see these BCLIB MLA's unseated, then they should try for it, that includes the mayor who is welcome to run against Richard Lee in the general election. But the truth is that there was only one councilor that participated in the provincial election previously and probably wont try to unseat a popular Richard Lee this time. BCNDP will certainly have a difficult recruiting candidates from city council to run against these three BCLIB MLA's in Burnaby who will have represented the ridings for 8 straight years, and that certainly qualifies Richard Lee as a mayoral candidate who has taken on BCNDP in the riding even before the sweep.

So all this talk about reuniting is one that is almost required in consideration to the strength BCA has shown in civic elections over the past decades and history has shown a split opposition will never bring transition over power. The only person who can unite the party and lead conservatives like Harry Bloy and liberals like Bill Cunningham will take someone like Richard Lee. He has done an excellent job representing his riding and it is certainly time to move on from there and he is well qualified to do so.

4/10/2008 12:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who is kidding whom? Are you saying the BCA councillors would be ethical enough to run (and possible win) on council and then not be tempted to step into the Provincial election as condidates? Of course they would. Cathy Corrigan will win on school board and then promptly try for the NDP nomination in Bby Willingdon three months later. Give your head a shake and clear out he cobwebs. Pietro C or Dan J would do the same thing.

4/10/2008 1:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"From what I do know about the remaining people on the Board, I don't really feel that was a fair comment. Do you know who these people are to make a comment like that. "

From what I've been reading, yes.


"These are fathers and mothers, Burnaby community activist volunteers, accountants, lawyers, real estate agents and insurance salesmen all from Burnaby and taking time out of their busy lives to volunteer in this political party."

Yeah so? All political parties have that mix. In regards to Team Burnaby's Board, they obviously are oblivious of how political party boards are supposed to operate in terms of relationships with the elected politicians.


"It is a diversified board of Chinese, Italians, East Indians and Anglos. They are your typical Jack and Jill Burnaby constituents."

Not news there, so is the BCA, the Conservatives, federal Liberals, BC Liberals, and NDP.



This would be like me saying we should dump the Canucks because they have too many Swedes and a goalie that cared more about his wife in Florida.

Wrong there. To use the analogy, it's the Board of Directors of Orca Bay telling the players how to skate.


"Many of the Board members have also supported and volunteered for Richard and Harry Provincially and for you to say something as stupid as that why should I bust my ass to help them in the future."

Why would you bust your ass to help Harry?

"You talk about the handful of votes that Richard and Harry won by in the last election and all the help that they need in the next election. Well you've just insulted a lot of Richard's and Harry's volunteers with your comments. "

So what? It's reality. And, the real volunteers know the narrow margin of votes each has received.

If those volunteers of yours are smart like most of us in the real political world, they would know the narrow margin of victories and work their ass off to ensure a higher result next time. That's the way politics works, kid.

"I support Richard and Harry but I still have faith in TB.

Blind faith obviously.

"With those type of comments I've lost respect for Richard and Harry and prefer to watch my goalie and the Canucks in May 2009 on TV.

Go for it. and don't forget the McCain's Super Fries.

4/10/2008 4:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Why would you do that based on comments from someone who did not care about much TB from the very beginning anyway. Certainly these members are as passionate about politics as those that have splitted from TB. But after the recent conflict within TB, it is important to repair the damage that has been done before they nominate councilors to run against their former comrades."

Too late for that one. The damage has been done and this is the second time in Team Burnaby's history that they've had a real mess on their hands.

"It will make more sense to have someone like Richard Lee who is popular in all sides to chair the party and invite the councilors back after reaching a consensus on the mayoral candidate and have the nomination race that includes Barbara afterwards who will no doubt cakewalk to nomination in addition to four other minority candidates that is able to attract younger voters and immigrants, someone like Richard Lee."

Forget it, it ain't gonna happen.

You'll have to dump the power hungry people on that board first,
and then it work it, but there's no time before this civic election to do that.

Face the facts, the problem was caused by Team Burnaby, not the departing Board Members or councillors.

4/10/2008 4:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"but there's no time before this civic election to do that."
That depends. six months is a long time to turn what looks to be an election for BCA to lose to one for TB to win. It will depend on how TB can redeem itself. No one would have thought that TB was able to unite friends from BNPA which is now defunct and likely unable to elect any more councilors. If all three TB councilors decide the reunite the day after BCA nominates their candidates in May, then there is no doubt that it will motivate the supporters to coronate its popular mayoral candidate, or even extremely popular like Richard Lee, to run against BCA's mayoral candidate who is likely to run unopposed in the nomination race. I am certain no one from TB is against cooperation.

"Who is kidding whom? Are you saying the BCA councillors would be ethical enough to run (and possible win) on council and then not be tempted to step into the Provincial election as condidates? Of course they would. Cathy Corrigan will win on school board and then promptly try for the NDP nomination in Bby Willingdon three months later. Give your head a shake and clear out he cobwebs. Pietro C or Dan J would do the same thing."
No kidding, even if these three powerful BCA figures decide to run against BCLIB MLA's, they will be running on their own merits and have no advantage of being carried by the governing party as incumbents. There is no stopping them from doing that since they may very well lose and continue to serve on the council. But even if nominated for both elections, they will have to go through a vote of confidence at the civic election since we all know they can only serve one at a time. But no one is naive enough to believe that civic elections for both sides are detached from provincial elections. And if past elections are of any sign of the popular support for both sides, Mayor Corrigan would have a hard time holding off someone who can unite the support that want to see a transition of power.

4/10/2008 5:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"That depends. six months is a long time to turn what looks to be an election for BCA to lose to one for TB to win. It will depend on how TB can redeem itself."


The simple outcome is that TB won't redeem itself. Too many power hungry people wanting to protect their self-interest.



No one would have thought that TB was able to unite friends from BNPA which is now defunct and likely unable to elect any more councilors. If all three TB councilors decide the reunite the day after BCA nominates their candidates in May, then there is no doubt that it will motivate the supporters to coronate its popular mayoral candidate, or even extremely popular like Richard Lee, to run against BCA's mayoral candidate who is likely to run unopposed in the nomination race. I am certain no one from TB is against cooperation.

"TB" and "cooperation" simply don't go together, as Burnaby has seen.

Richard Lee wouldn't run for Mayor since he's quite happy being where he is right now.


"Who is kidding whom? Are you saying the BCA councillors would be ethical enough to run (and possible win) on council and then not be tempted to step into the Provincial election as condidates? Of course they would. Cathy Corrigan will win on school board and then promptly try for the NDP nomination in Bby Willingdon three months later. Give your head a shake and clear out he cobwebs. Pietro C or Dan J would do the same thing."
"No kidding, even if these three powerful BCA figures decide to run against BCLIB MLA's, they will be running on their own merits and have no advantage of being carried by the governing party as incumbents. "

The simple answer to that is that they won't. Why would they? They would be in Opposition and Opposition members can only talk. They would run if there is a good chance for the NDP to make government again.


"There is no stopping them from doing that since they may very well lose and continue to serve on the council."

The opposite is true. They could win and continue on even without
going through being an candidate for the provincial election. Why waste the time and effort if the only outcome is being an Opposition MLA.


"But even if nominated for both elections, they will have to go through a vote of confidence at the civic election since we all know they can only serve one at a time. But no one is naive enough to believe that civic elections for both sides are detached from provincial elections. And if past elections are of any sign of the popular support for both sides, Mayor Corrigan would have a hard time holding off someone who can unite the support that want to see a transition of power.

Kind of a convulted statement.

But not unusual from Team Burnaby supporters who keep going on with these suppositions that won't turn out to be anything except lit up pixels on a monitor.

4/10/2008 6:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blah blah blah

What's needed now is a political move, and that probably won't happen until late summer when Barbara, Gary, Garth and the other activists from the centre-right form their new 'independent' party.

Rankin now has control of his party, and I doubt if it will get much bigger.

The BCA - well, they're laughing. As amply proven by many posts on this blog.

And why hasn't anyone pointed out the very obvious fact that Rankin is the real loser here?

4/10/2008 8:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's needed now is a political move, and that probably won't happen until late summer when Barbara, Gary, Garth and the other activists from the centre-right form their new 'independent' party.

Who says it would be an independent "party"? The three can run on their own with combined resources. Been done before.

"Rankin now has control of his party, and I doubt if it will get much bigger."

Obviously.

"The BCA - well, they're laughing. As amply proven by many posts on this blog."

They're rolling on the floor laughing and and pointing at Team Burnaby just as many voters are.

"And why hasn't anyone pointed out the very obvious fact that Rankin is the real loser here?"

He is, along with a few others who are connected with him.

But it is his choice to go forward with Team Burnaby...

even though with Team Burnaby, there isn't much there.

4/10/2008 9:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Who says it would be an independent "party"? The three can run on their own with combined resources. Been done before."

That is done. These three are not entirely without chances to win. Let us not forget about Surrey civic election in 2005 where the incumbent mayor was defeated by Diane Watts an independent. BUT, the pro-mayor civic party had majority on the council until Diane Watts worked several of them over to form the majority bloc on the council.

Certainly it wont be easy winning as an independent. But if such rarity does happen where indepedent candidate does outpoll BCA mayoral candidate and wins the election but with only those three candidates elected facing the same BCA majority, I do feel that it is still possible for a BCA councilor to walk over to form the majority bloc. With the experience BCA had in government some of these councilors do deserve to chair the finance committee as the majority party member.

If these three candidates can make this into a high turn out election and leave a council nomination space intentionally as long TB only nominates school board candidates, such a cooperation should hopefully push an independent while uniting and competent candidate such as Richard Lee into the office.

4/10/2008 9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Burnaby Politics, sports, drugs and rock n roll....

"Wrong there. To use the analogy, it's the Board of Directors of Orca Bay telling the players how to skate."

I never knew Orca Bay had a Board of Directors, I thought they only had an ownership group. Know wonder the Canucks were so bad they were being told by a group of phantom Board of Directors how NOT to skate. Just like this group of political wing nuts here who are just as lost.

"Go for it. and don't forget the McCain's Super Fries."

Buddy, there must be something special in those McCain Super fries. Can I have some!

4/10/2008 10:55 PM  

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