Friday, June 06, 2008

What will everyone complain about for the next few years?

The province and city hall are teaming up to revitalize the jewel in the middle of Burnaby.

Political candidates of all levels have made Burnaby Lake their cause to champion for years. No word yet on what politicians will advocate for next.

18 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give it time.

Team Burnaby originating bloggers seem to complain about everything these days, including those things which have no application to civic related things at Burnaby City Hall.

Look for idiots like Harry Bloy to put this on their campaign literature and for Team Burnaby to use this on their campaign.

This isn't really new news. It should have been done years ago.

In fact it was made to be something in the 2005 election by the BC Liberals, but didn't get anywhere.

Maybe this time it will.

But Burnaby Lake should be left as it is to naturally become a full surface area bog.

$20 million will buy new RCMP constables or a least something new at Burnaby Hospital.

6/06/2008 4:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the BC Liberals bring $20 million to dig a ditch in the mud at Burnaby Lake when Burnaby Hospital could have made better use of that $20 million?

Figures.

6/06/2008 7:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give that time lap between now to the next election, this is hardly a favor that the government is throwing to the city. Rather, if this move will get the mayor to silence his stance on Gateway Project (one that aligns with BCNDP of course), and that will at least show that the mayor is grateful enough to put away partisan differences. But he would be naive to act otherwise if he decides to continue his attack on Premier Campbell's twinning project by putting his faith in his BCNDP allies. One still has to thank our premier however for funding our city budget shortfall thanks to computer-gate.

"Look for _blank_ like Harry Bloy to put this on their campaign literature and for Team Burnaby to use this on their campaign."
Obscene words have been blurred out for the sake of making people aware BCA bloggers lack of respect.
You are correct, given that those who have made Campbell government possible will also be those who donated the resources to make the literature possible. Why benefit will TB gain if it decides to run "independentlY' of BCLIB while BCA has every advantage to gain by severing themselves from extremist ideology. But this 10 million dollar project is no comparison to the 10 billion dollar twinning project that the mayor is opposing. With his wife now deeply associated with BCNDP, it will take of courage to accept such a present gracefully. One is not so sure how he will respond to such a "goodwill" from BCLIB. But the fact that TB will do everything to maximize BCLIB supporters turnout at the poll is easy enough to understand.

6/06/2008 8:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Give that time lap between now to the next election, this is hardly a favor that the government is throwing to the city. Rather, if this move will get the mayor to silence his stance on Gateway Project (one that aligns with BCNDP of course), and that will at least show that the mayor is grateful enough to put away partisan differences. "

It won't, and Corrigan's position
on Gateway will not change.

"But he would be naive to act otherwise if he decides to continue his attack on Premier Campbell's twinning project by putting his faith in his BCNDP allies. "

Huh? He is an NDP member.



One still has to thank our premier however for funding our city budget shortfall thanks to computer-gate."

What's there to thank the Premier for? For digging a ditch in a silt
filled lake when the money could have been put to better use?

There was no city budget for the revitalization of Burnaby Lake, that was contigent on federal and/or provincial funding.


"Look for _blank_ like Harry Bloy to put this on their campaign literature and for Team Burnaby to use this on their campaign."
Obscene words have been blurred out for the sake of making people aware BCA bloggers lack of respect.

Sure. what about Team Burnaby's lack of respect??

"You are correct, given that those who have made Campbell government possible will also be those who donated the resources to make the literature possible. Why benefit will TB gain if it decides to run "independentlY' of BCLIB while BCA has every advantage to gain by severing themselves from extremist ideology."

Extremist ideaology? A bit of a stretch there.

"But this 10 million dollar project is no comparison to the 10 billion dollar twinning project that the mayor is opposing.

Of course not. It's not supposed to be.

"With his wife now deeply associated with BCNDP,"

Nothing new there. She's been an NDP member for decades. So has he.

"it will take of courage to accept such a present gracefully. One is not so sure how he will respond to such a "goodwill" from BCLIB. But the fact that TB will do everything to maximize BCLIB supporters turnout at the poll is easy enough to understand."

Goodwill, sure. That "goodwill" was also proposed in 2005, in fact it was a staged event for John, Richard and Harry towards the end of the 2005 campaign, but nothing of any use happened.

Team Burnaby couldn't do much to 'maximize' BC Liberal turnout other than convincing the riding associations to do the phoning. Otherwise if Team Burnaby handles those membership lists themselves, it's a violation of BC Liberal Party rules as was found out, but does Team Burnaby play by the rules.

In many instances, no from what we've heard.

Besides, one can never tell a person how to vote.

Only a fool would vote according to the wishes of another person.

The smart voter chooses the candidates wisely on the basis of who he or she figures will do a good job on City Council.

Whether that is BCA or Team Burnaby or Independent, doesn't matter.

6/06/2008 9:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harry Bloy is a blank.

6/06/2008 9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Corrigan should certainly continue to oppose the Premier on Gateway Project (very much in vain of course), maybe he should simply reject Burnaby Lake funding altogether so he can be more firm on his stand against the mayor. I mean, digging a "pointless" ditch to save the lake vs. another new computer system upgrade, the right choice cant be less obvious. But history has shown that Mayor Corrigan has always taken partisan stands against Campbell administration and I hope that Premier Campbell is expecting nothing in return.

"Team Burnaby couldn't do much to 'maximize' BC Liberal turnout other than convincing the riding associations to do the phoning. Otherwise if Team Burnaby handles those membership lists themselves, it's a violation of BC Liberal Party rules as was found out, but does Team Burnaby play by the rules."
Let us not be naive here. Is it against BCNDP's rules to take out their membership contacts and have campaign staffs from Corrigan & Co. start phoning them one by one? There are just as many ways to transfer those contacts from BCLIB to TB as those from BCNDP to BCA, which much easier as well as mandatory socialist party membership will immediately discourage people from joining BCA which could use some more "independence". There is no law forbidding MLA's phoning families and friends to support Team Burnaby who happen to be BCLIB supporters. There is no law forbidding the President of the Chamber of Commerce from phoning their friends who too happen to be friends of BCLIB. If Gordon Campbell has decided to bless the campaign to unseat Mayor Corrigan, do not be surprised to see the great overlaps in the voter turnout as there is already between their supporters.

6/06/2008 9:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey! Wasn't the making of a Wildlife Sanctuary at Burnaby Lake one of the great original campaign promises from our friends in Team Burnaby?

6/06/2008 9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Hey! Wasn't the making of a Wildlife Sanctuary at Burnaby Lake one of the great original campaign promises from our friends in Team Burnaby?"

You mean Team Burnaby actually promised a place for BC Liberal Regional Organizers and political hacks to be at a place of their own at Burnaby Lake??

6/06/2008 10:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Corrigan should certainly continue to oppose the Premier on Gateway Project (very much in vain of course), maybe he should simply reject Burnaby Lake funding altogether so he can be more firm on his stand against the mayor. I mean, digging a "pointless" ditch to save the lake vs. another new computer system upgrade, the right choice cant be less obvious."

Different things. Provincial money being used to dig a ditch in a lake is quite different. But as far as "computer gate" goes, the problem is with the supplier, not Council.


But history has shown that Mayor Corrigan has always taken partisan stands against Campbell administration and I hope that Premier Campbell is expecting nothing in return.

Why would Corrigan (or any other Mayor) be 100% supportive of Campbell? Corrigian wasn't 100%supportive of everything Premier Harcourt did either.


"Team Burnaby couldn't do much to 'maximize' BC Liberal turnout other than convincing the riding associations to do the phoning. Otherwise if Team Burnaby handles those membership lists themselves, it's a violation of BC Liberal Party rules as was found out, but does Team Burnaby play by the rules."

Let us not be naive here. Is it against BCNDP's rules to take out their membership contacts and have campaign staffs from Corrigan & Co. start phoning them one by one?"


Considering that they are also NDP members (the BCA is a subset of the NDP by constitution, and NDP memberships is reqired to join the BCA. Team Burnaby on the other hand has no such relationship with the BC Liberals, and a BC Liberal Party membership is not required for joining Team Burnaby. Plus joining the local BC Liberals doesn't mean an auotmatic membership in Team Burnaby.

The BC Liberals have not formally said Team Burnaby is part of the BC Liberals, so the two are seperate.



There are just as many ways to transfer those contacts from BCLIB to TB as those from BCNDP to BCA, which much easier as well as mandatory socialist party membership will immediately discourage people from joining BCA which could use some more "independence".

It's actually wrong since Team Burnaby is not part of the BC Liberals, while at the same time the BCA is part of the BCNDP.

You're confusing one with the other.


"There is no law forbidding MLA's phoning families and friends to support Team Burnaby who happen to be BCLIB supporters. There is no law forbidding the President of the Chamber of Commerce from phoning their friends who too happen to be friends of BCLIB."

No law, but it is not a good idea to use one organization's list without express permission for the benfit of another. To do so could be considered stealing and many members do not want to be phoned using their membership information
outside their own group.

Where the problem comes in is when or if Team Burnaby uses BC Liberal membership lists without permission from the BC Liberal Party to do so. If the riding associations want to try a phone session of their memembers to try and convince them to vote TB, then there is no problem, but many members would not want to be told how to vote.

Team Burnaby should be building its own resources and not relying on the BC Liberals or any other party. They are supposed to be non-partisan.

With the Chamber of Commerce, that is using 'in house'. Phoning their own membership inside their own environment. That's been done for ages. But whether it works is debatable.

But members are more smart than to be dictated to as to how to vote in an election.

If it were me getting such a phone call telling me how I should vote, I'd tell the caller to piss off.

If Gordon Campbell has decided to bless the campaign to unseat Mayor Corrigan, do not be surprised to see the great overlaps in the voter turnout as there is already between their supporters.

Doesn't matter if he blesses it or not. The membership should have receive a request of permission to use their information for the benfit of another group.

It's that simple.

People join the BC Liberals to support the BC Liberal local riding association and the candidate, not some civic elector group that thinks they are a part of the BC Liberals, which they are not.

If Gordon Campbell phoned me and told me I should vote Team Burnaby I'd tell him to piss off too.

No one is going to tell me how to vote, and no one should be told that they have to vote this way or that way.

6/06/2008 10:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The voters are well aware which party has decided to give unanimous approval on the mayor's misjudgment at the council vote. But even more importantly, to have a mayor who partisan nature require him to oppose our premier, that simply strains relationships between the two levels of government. Can BCA and our "NDP" mayor use some more independence from BCNDP? I would say, according to poll numbers, the majority of voters will say so.

"No one is g-oing to tell me how to vote, and no one should be told that they have to vote this way or that way."
Firstly,
It appears that it is ethical for BCNDP,which supports socialism which is extremist in nature, to have its members voting to get its mayor of choice re-elected while they are questioning BCLIB's support for TB? No one is naive enough to buy into this fallacy. Those who claim Team Partisan should be "non-partisan" may be behind on their concepts of democracy and party politics.

MLAs on both sides will continue to support and their staffs will phone up supporters no matter if they party members or provincially non-partisans. Those for riding associations are free to phone up their own supporters to support their preferred mayoral candidate. No, TB is never part of BCLIB, they simply have similar purposes to defeat certain groups, and with the same token, TB also consists of federal conservatives and liberals as seen from 05 nomination race. With a much larger database of supporters and greater popular appeal than the ideologically marginalized civic party, Team Burnaby's path to victory is more than clear.

6/06/2008 10:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Firstly,
It appears that it is ethical for BCNDP,which supports socialism which is extremist in nature, to have its members voting to get its mayor of choice re-elected while they are questioning BCLIB's support for TB?"

Kind of missing the point. The BCA requires NDP membership in order to become a member. Team Burnaby on the other hand does not require membership in the BC Liberals, nor does the BC Liberal membership for a new member in Burnaby mean an automatic membership in Team Burnaby.

When a person joins the BCA, they know that they have to be also a member of the NDP.

It was similar to what the provincial Liberals had, since before Gordon Wilson seperated the two, a member of the provincial Liberals in B.C. was also a member of the federal Liberals.

The BCNDP would hardly be called to have 'extremist socialist' ideas since it has moderated alot since the bad old days of the 1980's.



" No one is naive enough to buy into this fallacy. Those who claim Team Partisan should be "non-partisan" may be behind on their concepts of democracy and party politics. "

It's not a claim, Team Burnaby had labelled itself as non-partisan.

"MLAs on both sides will continue to support and their staffs will phone up supporters no matter if they party members or provincially non-partisans."

MLA staffs can't do that unless they do it on their own time at home, since the staff is paid by public money.



"Those for riding associations are free to phone up their own supporters to support their preferred mayoral candidate."

If the riding Executive approves it, but they would best stay out of it, since that's not their purpose for existing.


"No, TB is never part of BCLIB, they simply have similar purposes to defeat certain groups,"

and not come with ideas that the voters would like instead?

Typical.



and with the same token, TB also consists of federal conservatives and liberals as seen from 05 nomination race. With a much larger database of supporters and greater popular appeal than the ideologically marginalized civic party, Team Burnaby's path to victory is more than clear."

Interesting. One hopes that Team Burnaby did not sell off that database to one federal party or the other, in other words sell it off to the federal Liberals.

If that happed the Conservatives would be pissed.

6/06/2008 11:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would it be appropriate to impose socialist ideologies on BCA members and candidates? Apparently not. Many things may seem appropriate and like in all elections, some things are no matter how appropriate or otherwise are prone to be forgotten afterwards. Victories are themselves victories at the end of the day.

However TB uses the contacts they have accessible is up to the party's own discretion. The path is laid out to maximize BCLIB supporters which will easily tilt to the favor of change. Shouldnt be difficult too for people to understand that unity too is the only option for victory.

6/06/2008 11:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would it be appropriate to impose socialist ideologies on BCA members and candidates? Apparently not."

Since 'socialist ideaologies' are more applicable to the provincial
and federal levels of politics, it's a bit odd why this continual
discussion of imposing socialist ideaology exists at the civic level.

"Many things may seem appropriate and like in all elections, some things are no matter how appropriate or otherwise are prone to be forgotten afterwards."

Like the perpetual complaining from Team Burnab and their continual harping about their links to Gordon Campbell??


"Victories are themselves victories at the end of the day. "

Decided by the voters. Not the hacks.


"However TB uses the contacts they have accessible is up to the party's own discretion."

True, if they have their own resources that they have built themseleves. They simply cannot go and take what they want from other provincial or federal parties unless permission is granted.


"The path is laid out to maximize BCLIB supporters which will easily tilt to the favor of change."

The voters could also display "TILT" (overburden) if this keeps up.


Shouldnt be difficult too for people to understand that unity too is the only option for victory.

Shouldn't be too difficult for Team Burnaby to forget all this nonsense and think about so-called unity by formulating a party that everyone (including a few that some Team Burnaby types don't like) can come and help build Burnaby, but Team Burnaby is fast become far too selective.

6/07/2008 4:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All politics are local. People respect BCA's decision to endorse BCNDP's socialist ideologies. There are socialist governments in various provinces and I think they make credible governments. But in all democracies elections are won on the margin and it is about the support that ideology enjoys among the voters. And there should not be any question that BCA will expand its base if it decides to do away with the requirement to carry BCNDP party membership and it does not take political bias to realize that fact.

"Shouldn't be too difficult for Team Burnaby to forget all this nonsense and think about so-called unity by formulating a party that everyone (including a few that some Team Burnaby types don't like) can come and help build Burnaby, but Team Burnaby is fast become far too selective."
Certainly less selective than BCA, and you can carry BCNDP membership and still run with TB. It is certainly much more populist. The impression of favoring selected few seems be coming from designating Lee Rankin as the presumptive nominee against Mayor Corrigan. Make no mistake, the impression that created has forced Councilor Evans to quit and it will no doubt divide the party again. Without a unifying figure that has already established organizational support on the ground ready to have supporters come out within three months to get herself/himself elected, TB really has little chance against BCA who has a track record of winning civic elections.

"Like the perpetual complaining from Team Burnab and their continual harping about their links to Gordon Campbell??"

I hope Mayor Corrigan wont mind the opposition doing what they are elected to do, just as his friends in Victoria are doing on the issue of carbon tax. And there is need to "link" Campbell administration to TB since people can speculate freely why many BCNDP supporters are members of BCA and why many BCLIB supporters are members of TB. But TB will only win the next election by maximizing voters turnout on a populist agenda and a unifying mayoral candidacy. TB's decision will determine if the next election will be framed as socialist vs. populist or, if BCA succeeds, idealistic government vs. power-hungry opposition.

6/07/2008 10:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blah blah blah blah blah

I believe what you're trying to say is that Rankin will never beat Corrigan in a head-to-head battle. And that's good enough reason for the Tories to want Lee to run for mayor - one less namby-pamby Liberal in an elected office.

Politics is so nasty!
But at least it's fun, eh?

6/07/2008 11:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys haven't seen nasty as delivered by the NDP (as they were back in the good old days).

The nastiness within Team Burnaby does not need to happen, it is a product of silliness from a few who want control.

Nothing more.

The Tories do not "want" Lee to run for mayor. Lee is not even Conservative, he's federal Liberal.

Rankin will never make it past Corrigan.

6/08/2008 2:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The impression of favoring selected few seems be coming from designating Lee Rankin as the presumptive nominee against Mayor Corrigan"

That doesn't exist. Rankin has not been nominated so he isn't a 'presumptive nominee'.

The term "presumtive nominee" obviously comes from the label put to Obama. It is a U.S. term, not a Canadian one and has no equvialent in Canadian politics.

6/08/2008 3:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Certainly less selective than BCA, and you can carry BCNDP membership and still run with TB."

Why anyone would want to is a good question. But Nothing new there. The BVNPA and BVA had no provincial party or federal party restrictions as there were federal Conservatives and Liberals as well as the provincial ones.


"It is certainly much more populist. "

Disagree. Seems to be some sort of agenda going on within, which doesn't make for good politics.

"The impression of favoring selected few seems be coming from designating Lee Rankin as the presumptive nominee against Mayor Corrigan."

Rankin isn't a presumptive anything.


"Make no mistake, the impression that created has forced Councilor Evans to quit and it will no doubt divide the party again."

The nonsense continues, no doubt.



Without a unifying figure that has already established organizational support on the ground ready to have supporters come out within three months to get herself/himself elected, TB really has little chance against BCA who has a track record of winning civic elections. "

Agree there. It is plagued with personality conflicts, and people who just want their own agenda and not looking at the Big Picture in terms of becoming a real alternative rather than some project of an MLA or two who figure they want to protect their chances of getting re-elected.

Too many people want to control things.

A complete change of the Executive between AGM's means there was internal fighting going on and a nice power play or two.

Team Burnaby is far from what it could be.

Right now it's not worth for the smart voter to consider supporting.

Best thing to do is just look at the people seeking a Council seat and choose which ones indivudually would be worthy of support.

Forget the political hacks and the BC Liberal MLA's opinions.

6/08/2008 3:18 PM  

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