The grass is always Evergreener
This morning in a vortex of Coquitlam politics Burquitlam MLA Harry Bloy and his former colleagues CKNW guest host Christy Clark and Coquitlam councillor Richard Stewart were all on the air discussing the merits of the Evergreen Line versus the Suzanne Anton backed Broadway/UBC Line.
With Clark as the mediator Bloy and Stewart championed the Coquitlam's been next for two decades point of view for the town centre hub while the ambitious Vancouver councillor Anton made the case for transit growth in the core city.
Both lines would likely connect into the Millennium Line, increasing transit flow along the north Burnaby SkyTrain route which is already showing ridership growth due to a construction boom near the line. After city and suburb fight it out, expect Burnaby to gain transit riders no matter who wins.
With Clark as the mediator Bloy and Stewart championed the Coquitlam's been next for two decades point of view for the town centre hub while the ambitious Vancouver councillor Anton made the case for transit growth in the core city.
Both lines would likely connect into the Millennium Line, increasing transit flow along the north Burnaby SkyTrain route which is already showing ridership growth due to a construction boom near the line. After city and suburb fight it out, expect Burnaby to gain transit riders no matter who wins.
posted by Robert Burnaby at 9:21 AM
21 Comments:
Good on Harry.
When I ran in the council by-election, I have always backed the skytrain extension. The voters eventually decided on an NDP affiliate who opposes it. SZ is irrelevant anyway as she will soon be defeated by VV.
The only way for Broadway extension to happen is for Carole Taylor to first win the race against Fraser Valley MLAs and hope that she will form her own government in 2011. But we will have gotten our Evergreen Line by then.
RS however is an excellent politician and the lone man standing from the ex-mayor's Coquitlam First party supported by JM and HB, it may not be far-fetched to believe that he will be launching his third MLA consecutive run in Diane Thorne's riding. With EVERGREENLINE becoming a major issue in the riding, it is expected that Diane Thorne who has stayed silent should soon speak out or prepare be defeated otherwise.
Coquitlam First = Harry First Party. Mostly run by the same people who started Team Burnaby.
Coquitlam First didn't disclose where the funds came from to run the 2005 campaign. Not required by law, but should have been done to
cement respectability and force the opposition municipal group to do the same thing.
The Evergreen Line is not new. It was proposed in the late 1980's, and one wonders why Harry hasn't been more stronger (since Christy was Deputy Premier) in getting the line started during his first term, or even the second.
The Evergreen Line is a non starter, but could be on the backburner since from a ridership volume, the Broadway UBC Line (which will intersect the Canada Line) will make more sense, and would be more benificial to the
Canada Line/Expo Line/Millenium Line system that the Evergreen Line would be.
A better solution would be to lobby for more trains on the West Coast Express to downtown, since
most of the ridership would be going downtown anyway.
I am not sure about you guys, but I wouldnt want people commenting about how Evergreen Line or Olympics Oval shouldnt be built in Coquitlam/Burnaby when they obviously arent even from here.
Coquitlam First = Harry First Party.
That is dead wrong, HB doesnt even come close to Coquitlam First's biggest backer.
Sure, and the Great Pumpkin brings gifts to the kids on Hallowe'en Night, right?
Harry's supporters were no doubt behind the formation of Coquitlam First even though Harry was never personally directly involved with it.
Harry not knowing about Coquitlam First when it was started? Unlikely. He was a part of starting Team Burnaby.
I live in the Coquitlam Burnaby area and would rather see the UBC/Broadway connection built before the Evergreen Line simply because the UBC/Broadway Line is needed, since it would allievate the heavy use of buses on Broadway, plus provide a rapid transit connection to the Canada Line and thence to the airport.
As for the Evergreen Line, a better solution is to negotiate with the railway and add more West Coast Express service from Coquitlam Centre to downtown Vancouver as mentioned by a previous poster.
So you are looking to overturn the deal that has already been made and one that has been unanimously endorsed by Tri-City city councils from all sides of the politics. The priority is Evergreen Line and that has been settled, one can argue that Surrey needs a skytrain extension to Guildford but any discussion in such manner is irrelevant to the project.
"Harry's supporters were no doubt behind the formation of Coquitlam First even though Harry was never personally directly involved with it.
Harry not knowing about Coquitlam First when it was started? Unlikely. He was a part of starting Team Burnaby."
Again, the notion that "Coquitlam First = Harry First Party" is dead wrong.
He does not come even close to being manipulator of the party as his influence is very limited in that area. But he has always been able to find help in that area. The same people who piece together CF is the same people who propelled the Yonah Martin to the candidacy (certainly not HB). In HB's riding however NDP challenger is more likely going to come from BCA as the centrist mayor Maxine Wilson has done a good job keeping the council pretty united.
Sadly, we might have seen the last days of Coquitlam First. One of the candidates I ran against and also the 2nd place finisher was a long time party member and even she could not fathom the thought of running under a party banner. It is very likely the sole remaining member Richard Stewart will attempt his 3rd run to recover the only Coquitlam MLA ridings that BCL lost in the previous election. That is why if HB cannot take back city council with TB members who are also interested in the MLA race, he will have a pretty tough battle coming up against BCNDP, most likely from BCA.
"He does not come even close to being manipulator of the party as his influence is very limited in that area."
He's been too busy trying to manipulate the BC Liberals in Burnaby and Coquitlam.
"But he has always been able to find help in that area. The same people who piece together CF is the same people who propelled the Yonah Martin to the candidacy"
and who also are strong supporters
of Harry Bloy.
"(certainly not HB). In HB's riding however NDP challenger is more likely going to come from BCA as the centrist mayor Maxine Wilson has done a good job keeping the council pretty united. "
That's the Coquitlam part. The BCA
is in Burnaby.
"Sadly, we might have seen the last days of Coquitlam First."
Probbaly because it wasn't run properly in the first place. It was run by a few of the same people
who have run Team Burnaby in the ground from what I read somewhere.
That is why if HB cannot take back city council with TB members who are also interested in the MLA race, he will have a pretty tough battle coming up against BCNDP, most likely from BCA.
Why would taking back Burnaby Council have to involve HB??
That can be done without Harry. He's not needed for the successful completion of that excercise.
"So you are looking to overturn the deal that has already been made"
Nothing has been signed in terms of contractual obligations to start building. The project is still in the preliminary design stages.
"and one that has been unanimously endorsed by Tri-City city councils from all sides of the politics."
Nothing new there. They have been asking for it since 2000.
"The priority is Evergreen Line and that has been settled, one can argue that Surrey needs a skytrain extension to Guildford but any discussion in such manner is irrelevant to the project."
That isn't even being looked at by Translink, since the ridership isn't there.
Translink is planning express bus service once the Port Mann Bridge II is completed.
Harry, like all other MPs or MLA's worries about only three things and in the following order.
1/How do I get (stay)elected?
2/Will my party win government (ie a majority)?
3/Will I be in cabinet?
That is why the Evergreen line is a no brainer for him. He can look good even if he moves to the new Burnaby riding and leaves Coquitlam.
For those of you who think he is interested in TEAM Burnaby winning a majority or anything else, you are dreaming. The only interest HB or any other outsider has in TB is in getting some updated data from even a modest civic campaign. He is not a strong MLA and he will face a serious NDP challenger next time. Add in the slow moving Basi trial, the hard feelings about the overly generous pay raise and maybe even an economy that may be running out of steam and what do you get?
You get a guy who is sitting squarely on his number one priority I mentionewd at the beginning. He will need what ever edge he can get
TEAM Burnaby is history anyway. Still in debt, still losing volunteers
and only a year away from civic campaigning.
Of course the Evergreen line should be built, but it won't be off the drawing boards before the Olympics.
"Harry, like all other MPs or MLA's worries about only three things and in the following order."
"1/How do I get (stay)elected?"
Most important for Harry. Pretty much important for MP's and MLA's
"2/Will my party win government (ie a majority)?
Most important for most MP's or MLA's
3/Will I be in cabinet?
Most important for Harry. But Harry should accept the answer on that one being 'no', unless he ends up with a last minute goodie to save his behind like Patty Sahota got.
Funny no mention of "How can I serve the constituents to help them resolve problems?"
"That is why the Evergreen line is a no brainer for him. He can look good even if he moves to the new Burnaby riding and leaves Coquitlam."
Interesting that he moved from Burnaby to the new riding in Coquitlam prior to running in Burquitlam.
"For those of you who think he is interested in TEAM Burnaby winning a majority or anything else, you are dreaming. The only interest HB or any other outsider has in TB is in getting some updated data from even a modest civic campaign."
If a few people had their way, he wouldn't get it. The modest campaign would assist Richard or John, and possibily who ever is in Edmonds but none of that data would
leave where it is.
Besides the better data would be from the federal election campaigns since it would be newer,
but that information is pretty much sealed off.
Problem with Harry and one or two of his supporters is that they figure Harry is entitled to it, which he is not.
"He is not a strong MLA and he will face a serious NDP challenger next time."
That would make things interesting.
"Add in the slow moving Basi trial, the hard feelings about the overly generous pay raise and maybe even an economy that may be running out of steam and what do you get?"
"You get a guy who is sitting squarely on his number one priority I mentionewd at the beginning. He will need what ever edge he can get"
He does, but do the voters really really need him?
"TEAM Burnaby is history anyway. Still in debt, still losing volunteers
and only a year away from civic campaigning."
Add in losing Directors. Too bad though. Could have been made into something equal in scope and acceptability to BCA.
"Of course the Evergreen line should be built, but it won't be off the drawing boards before the Olympics. "
Very true on both counts, there simply aren't enough people and construction resources to start it,
and as a previous poster mentioned, the final designs and alignments haven't gone to the public yet.
I would also say it would not be started until after Gateway is completed since Gateway will take up a large proportion of financial resources.
There would be a contest for the UBC/Broadway Line and Evergreen, and I'm sure Translink would choose the next project on the basis of anticipated ridership volume of which the UBC/Broadway Line would win over.
"Interesting that he moved from Burnaby to the new riding in Coquitlam prior to running in Burquitlam."
Yeah. I wonder if he will move back or use the old "Deep Roots in Burnaby" line. Speaking of "lines" an added bonus is that the Evergreen Line is slated to run up the new boundary between the new Coquitlam and Burnaby ridings.
"Besides the better data would be from the federal election campaigns since it would be newer"
How so?. Civic election is Nov 08 - Provincial is May 09. Would Civic info not be the best and most recent? When do you expect the next Federal election?
"Problem with Harry and one or two of his supporters is that they figure Harry is entitled to it, which he is not."
You got that right! Trouble is he will get it anyway. If there is one, the TB campaign will be slanted to gaining voter preference info from his riding boundaries. Its a good plan if you can get away with it. Let the suckers pay.
Interesting that he moved from Burnaby to the new riding in Coquitlam prior to running in Burquitlam.
"Yeah. I wonder if he will move back or use the old "Deep Roots in Burnaby" line. Speaking of "lines" an added bonus is that the Evergreen Line is slated to run up the new boundary between the new Coquitlam and Burnaby ridings. "
That's based on geography and
population density. Uses an alignment along North Road to Como
Lake and then down along the north
bluffs to Port Moody.
"Besides the better data would be from the federal election campaigns since it would be newer"
"How so?. Civic election is Nov 08 - Provincial is May 09. Would Civic info not be the best and most recent? When do you expect the next Federal election?"
Spring 08. Or earlier. But it's a moot point. The data is simply
not made available off site.
Civic info isn't exactly the best
and besides, who gets it in the
federal election? Equally to
Conservatives and Liberals or just to those campaigns that are "Harry
friendly?" The other problem is that data will most likely come with a deal.
"Problem with Harry and one or two of his supporters is that they figure Harry is entitled to it, which he is not."
"You got that right! Trouble is he will get it anyway. "
From two locations he won't. Guaranteed.
"If there is one, the TB campaign will be slanted to gaining voter preference info from his riding boundaries."
No shit, Sherlock. That's probably already been given to him.
" Its a good plan if you can get away with it. Let the suckers pay. "
Indeed and in the end, look at what the voters end up with.
A used old MLA that doesn't have much motive power going to the tires.
"Spring 08. Or earlier. But it's a moot point. The data is simply
not made available off site."
I would have thought you had done a federal EDAY or two. Have you never wondered what happens to all the hard copy supporter names and numbers that get called on election day?
"Civic info isn't exactly the best and besides, who gets it in the federal election?"
The NDP know how good it can be and share it. Civic info can be very good. Especialy if it is current. Or if the CM is keeping his eye on which camapign he is going to run in a few months time.
"Equally to Conservatives and Liberals? or just to those campaigns that are "Harry friendly?""
You answered your own question.
"The other problem is that data will most likely come with a deal."
Really? Who would have thought it?
"I would have thought you had done a federal EDAY or two. Have you never wondered what happens to all the hard copy supporter names and numbers that get called on election day?"
They get alled by the parties a few weeks later and get asked:
"We would like you to provide a donation to help Stephen Dion build a better Canada, as soon as
his new Cabinet is sworn in..."
Most of the time there is no hard copy since much can be done by computer these days without boxes of paper lying around.
"Civic info isn't exactly the best and besides, who gets it in the federal election?"
The NDP know how good it can be and share it. Civic info can be very good. Especialy if it is current.
The NDP knows how to do alot of
good things.
"Or if the CM is keeping his eye on which camapign he is going to run in a few months time."
The hard copy belongs to the campaign and later constituency, not the Campaign Manager. Many times those boxes are spirited out
and kept locked in a place where the riding association knows where it is.
Some campaign managers had been so lousy one wonders why they would be at the next one.
"Equally to Conservatives and Liberals? or just to those campaigns that are "Harry friendly?""
You answered your own question.
And the response to Harry
would be "get lost".
"The other problem is that data will most likely come with a deal."
Really? Who would have thought it? "
Deal, as in what do we get for letting you borrow our stuff??
If your suggested price isn't what we're looking for, the stuff stays locked up.
forgot to mention that if Harry is endorsing Yonah Martin it would mean that he probably wouldn't get anything from our federal Liberal campaigns, even if he cried.
Harry doesn't mean much to us.
Harry Bloy again?
Is this guy some sort of patriarch of Burnaby politics or something?
He's just a backbench MLA isn't he?
Harry Bloy does not respond to constituents calls and concerns very well, but he sure knows a winning issue when he sees it. The Evergreen line has the potential to sink him so he will have to stay on top of this one.
If there is even a whiff of it being delayed further, he will have to explain just why he can't get anything done.
The Westside has now raised the issue of the Broadway/UBC extension. Even a long debate on which one to do first could be enough to tag HB as the Can'tDo guy. This debate has the potential to be a civic election issue next year in Vancouver with Sam Sullivan (or Ms Anton or whoever) making a big deal about it.
Come to think of it, the Westside line might make sense even to the Premier as it will cross his riding. He is going to need something big to deliver to his constituents after giving away the golfcourse and surrounding lands to the Musqueam band. West side residents are pissed about it.
Could the Premier be selling out our boy? How much did Harry win by last time? Not much as I recall. Less than 500 votes I think. Maybe moving to the new Burnaby riding will help a bit, but he has got to deliver SOMETHING to justify sending him back. He will need an ironclad start date for the Evergreen line constuction or he is toast.
"Harry Bloy does not respond to constituents calls and concerns very well"
Too bad, he's slipping in his fundamentals.
"but he sure knows a winning issue when he sees it. The Evergreen line has the potential to sink him so he will have to stay on top of this one."
No doubt he will, but others will
start to see that for what it is.
The Evergreen Line is needed to save Harry Bloy from extinction.
"If there is even a whiff of it being delayed further, he will have to explain just why he can't get anything done. "
Also to explain why he hadn't gotten anything done on since he was first elected in 2001.
"The Westside has now raised the issue of the Broadway/UBC extension. Even a long debate on which one to do first could be enough to tag HB as the Can'tDo guy. This debate has the potential to be a civic election issue next year in Vancouver with Sam Sullivan (or Ms Anton or whoever) making a big deal about it."
Possible, but it would be a winning issue, since there is volume delays on the Broadway Bus, and that line makes a logical tie
in to the Canada Line to downtown and the airport.
"Come to think of it, the Westside line might make sense even to the Premier as it will cross his riding. He is going to need something big to deliver to his constituents after giving away the golfcourse and surrounding lands to the Musqueam band."
True.
"West side residents are pissed about it."
That will fade. But the UBC/Broadway Line will be a postive project.
Could the Premier be selling out our boy? How much did Harry win by last time? Not much as I recall. Less than 500 votes I think.
420 in 2005, quite a bit of a loss
over 2001.
Maybe moving to the new Burnaby riding will help a bit, but he has got to deliver SOMETHING to justify sending him back.
Why? he moved into the 'new Coquitlam riding' before running in 2001 for that same purpose. Is this guy a hockey puck going back and forth on the ice or what?
He will need an ironclad start date for the Evergreen line constuction or he is toast.
Ain't going to happen.
I'll have butter on my toast..
and some orange juice to go with it.
Hmmm...
I think you got the last word here.
At least both our comments are on topic, which is less than I can say for most of the posts to this site.
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