What will you trade for power?
The Bloc, NDP and Liberals could be the government in a week's time if enough horse trading occurs. Burnaby MPs seem to have a bit of a trade policy divide with their soon to be Liberal friends.
Peter Julian and Bill Siksay have both been critical of the Liberal position on trade. This spring, Siksay said of trade with China, an issue that Liberals including former Prime Minister Jean Chretien have championed for years, "We can’t fall into the trap of holding back our concerns about human rights because we worry that it might have economic ramifications, given China’s growing economic and political power. We must be prepared to call China to account for its human rights record." Peter Julian has been critical of NAFTA and the FTAA, deals which Liberal governments helped implement and encouraged.
The Liberals have something to say about the NDP's economic record as well. In the Burnaby Now on September 24th, Stephane Dion dismissed the possibility of an alliance with the NDP saying, "We cannot have a coalition with a party that has a platform that would be damaging to the economy."
This should make for an interesting week in Parliament.
Peter Julian and Bill Siksay have both been critical of the Liberal position on trade. This spring, Siksay said of trade with China, an issue that Liberals including former Prime Minister Jean Chretien have championed for years, "We can’t fall into the trap of holding back our concerns about human rights because we worry that it might have economic ramifications, given China’s growing economic and political power. We must be prepared to call China to account for its human rights record." Peter Julian has been critical of NAFTA and the FTAA, deals which Liberal governments helped implement and encouraged.
The Liberals have something to say about the NDP's economic record as well. In the Burnaby Now on September 24th, Stephane Dion dismissed the possibility of an alliance with the NDP saying, "We cannot have a coalition with a party that has a platform that would be damaging to the economy."
This should make for an interesting week in Parliament.
posted by Robert Burnaby at 3:01 PM
42 Comments:
Okay, well, I dont really want to compare the portfolios that each of our MP's is assigned to, but it is obvious that if anyone is to be in the cabinet, it has got to be Peter Julian, (since Bill Siksay I believe will be defeated in the near future). While I am not a natural NDP supporter, but if it actually helps raise Burnaby's profile, especially with him being a trade minister from the Pacific Ocean Gateway City, I believe it will help us alot. But this sort of single party domination over Burnaby is getting scary, I mean seriously what chance will BCLIB actually have if Peter Julian is to become the Trade Minister, previously occupied by of course by the great David Emerson.
But I mean seriously what is NDP thinking exactly. I believe their deal with Stephane Dion will be the kiss of death. NDP being in the cabinet for the first time this sort of bad economic times, that my NDP friends, is call taking your own poison pill passed over by your so called "coalition partner". I would have formulated a deal with tories and strip them of the foreign affairs/defense portfolios like how the alliances were done in Germany. But if this is the way Peter Julian and his friends want to play it, it is fine by mean, I just hope the kitchen is not too hot for them, the coalition is going to short lived anyways, I cant wait to conservatives winning outright majority in 12 months.
Much ado about nothing.
Face facts. The COnservatives aren't going anywhere. They will be government as of Friday this week, and will still be government next April, September, etc. etc.
Actually, it looks like the Conservatives are gone: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/30/canada-coalition.html
That's just an deseperate move by
two parties.
It comes down to number of votes.
The NDP and Liberals and Bloc simply don't have them if all Conservatives are in the House.
The Conservatives won the largest apportion of seats, although barely.
Even if it was + 2 seats above the total combined of the Liberals NDP and Bloc, this nonense from the Opposition isn't going anywhere.
Julian is smoking something funny if he figures he's headed to Cabinet.
Let's hope the Coalition REDUCES the number of cabinet minister from the insane record size that the Tories installed.
And I bet their record cabinet costs more than the $30 million subsidy to give Canadians a choice.
Putting any one of Julian Siksay or Black in Cabinet would be fine by me. My concern is reducing the size of Cabinet.
As for smoking something funny, the NDP is clearly opposed to the marijuana smokers, as so richly indicated by their recent horrid treatment of their own post-smoking candidates.
Bye Bye Stephen Harper. I hope you enjoyed your time in Ottawa.
Again, this is alot of fuss over nothing.
In order for a motion to pass, it needs a majority of 50% +1, and the Opposition simply does not have the numbers.
Do the math.
A Canada First Coalition for Christmas
http://damndamndan.blogspot.com/
Nice to see y'all again!
Another blog
*yawn*
It's already been done.
By the way.
I moderate the comments on my blog.
Censorship.
Very funny, well, like I said no comparison, (but it's worthy repeating that conservatives will soon remove Bill Siksay from power), Peter Julian is the most likely candidate to be in the cabinet barring Libby Davies. I do believe that Peter Julian is in the running, and I would say Liberals are more likely going to agree only to moderate NDP being appointed, such as Peter Julian to the Trade Portfolios. As for Dawn Black, there simply no way she will retain the same portfolio as she is grossly under-qualified. Looks to me that Peter Julian will be the NDP new super from the westcoast. And I look forward to Jack Layton making it to the foreign affairs portfolio.
I look forward to Jack Layton making it to the foreign affairs portfolio.
We look forward to Christmas and then summer.
Global TV is reporting that the Tory knives are coming out for Stephen Harper, and his days as the Conservative leader are numbered.
Dr. Leung for Leader!
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!
Dr.Leung for leader.
Good grief, stop snorting the snow.
It fries the brain.
Again, this is alot of fuss over nothing.
In order for a motion to pass, it needs a majority of 50% +1, and the Opposition simply does not have the numbers.
Do the math.
Lib 77 + Bloc 49 + NDP 37 = 163
Tories = 143
Ummmmm.. You must have failed math.
Harpers only chance is to go to the Bloc and make them a sweetheart deal. Tell them they will realistically not get much out of the 3 sided deal with the NDP and Libs which is probably the case and sell his soul to the Bloc.
Might not be too far out now that all the left leaning pundits are saying the Bloc isn't really that bad after all.
Interesting that Harper pondered this same situation in 2004, against Martin.
"Ummmmm.. You must have failed math."
Not really. Just seeing if you were paying attention.
You're also forgetting the missing
piece, Sherlock.
Didn't put that in to see if you
would see it.
You didn't.
The Governor General has to agree
to the coalition's request to form a government.
She can agree to it, say no, and call an election or say no and tell Harper to continue on with the current government.
You missed that.
Ummmm must have failed first year Political Science.
Your political knowledge is worse than your math.
Some people just don't know when to STFU.
Review the circumstances, Sherlock:
(a) Harper can prorouge the House, or;
(b) The Coalition can go to the
Gov. General and convince her
to have them form a government.
- she can accept that and they
go on to do so, or;
- she says no.
(c) The Gov. General seeing that
the House is in disarray, can
dissolve Parliament and set forth
the mechanics for an election.
- she can say no, or;
(d) Insist that Harper continues
on as Prime Minister.
Your replies are worse than your
underwear.
Some people just don't know when to STFU.
Like that idiot who seems to worship Ronald Leung?
and by the way, the Governor General has to approve
- prorogue of the House or,
- establishment of the coalition, or
- disssolving Parliment to set an
election process in place., or
If she does not approve any one of those, the Conservatives remain as government and the Session continues on.
Several idiots are getting worked up over nothing.
Put away the keyboard and start
putting up the Christmas Tree.
I hope that conservatives have the numbers to defeat the liberals. I mean seriously I would really love to see a tory-ndp cabinet with Harper appointing Jack Layton to the ministry of finance. Remember the last time we had NDP minister in BC, I am sure you do, that was before the Gordon Campbell sweep. I mea seriously. Aligning yourself with NDP philosophy while trying to govern pragmatically at the same time is almost impossible. But back to Peter Julian, it would make sense to put him in trade portfolio and I would certainly be glad to see him trying to fight for "human rights" while trying to push forward "fair trade". Having a coalition government in Canada will finally put us a step forward to the socialist utopia.
Mark my words, The NDP will bend over for the Bloc while the Liberals stand and watch, more focussed on their leadership race with a lame-duck Dion standing there like a stuffed "scare(d)crow", to be a footnote in our history books, as the vultures fly overhead. Harper will twiddle his thumbs in wait as he flushes out the baby with the bathwater, readying himself for the majority that will come once all this nonsense blows up in the faces of its instigators. That will be the cherry-on-the-icing-on-the-cake. Just you wait and see. Mark my words, you heard it here first.
You're sounding like a bad 8-track.
Same poster same stuff repeated.
She can agree to it, say no, and call an election or say no and tell Harper to continue on with the current government.
You missed that.
Ummmm must have failed first year Political Science.
Thanks Professor for setting it straight.
But even a grade 10 social studies high school student would know this but the way you structured your remarks you probably also believe there were and still is Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq so there is no sense in arguing with you.
However, you are correct in that I'm not a Political Science major but my MBA has come in handy. Maybe you can teach me your wisdom in political science someday... NOT!
There is nobody to blame but the multi-party parliamentary democracy Canada has entrusted itself to. Places all over the world that have this type of parliamentary system will have this problem.
Remember 60% of Canadians did vote for the opposition and if these parties want to deal with the devil so be it. I'm a Conservative and back in 2004 I supported the Conservatives to do the same thing in wanting to kick the damn Liberals out. I guess turnaround is fair play. We play by the rules that is entrenched in our Constitution and Elections Act.
We will see how this unfolds but ALL the parties will get burnt here.
"But even a grade 10 social studies high school student would know this but the way you structured your remarks you probably also believe there were and still is Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq so there is no sense in arguing with you."
Sure. If you believe that, you have to be really ignorant.
However, you are correct in that I'm not a Political Science major but my MBA has come in handy.
Sure. if you want to be conceited.
and anyone can state they have
an MBA. Having an MBA isn't everything. I've known one or two
MBA's and one who had a double degree in business who bankupted
his business because he wasn't paying attention to the accountant.
Maybe you can teach me your wisdom in political science someday... NOT!
Sorry, you're not obviously worth the time for anyone to do that for you.
"There is nobody to blame but the multi-party parliamentary democracy Canada has entrusted itself to. Places all over the world that have this type of parliamentary system will have this problem."
Not nessesarily. It works quite well and has for quite a long time.
The only difference in Canada is
that our Senators are appointed, not elected as they are in Australia.
"Remember 60% of Canadians did vote for the opposition and if these parties want to deal with the devil so be it."
Not how it works. It's total number of seats obtained not the percentage that counts.
"I'm a Conservative and back in 2004 I supported the Conservatives to do the same thing in wanting to kick the damn Liberals out. I guess turnaround is fair play.
So now the Liberals are wanting to
join up with the NDP and their opponent in 1994, the Bloc.
"We play by the rules that is entrenched in our Constitution and Elections Act."
We will see how this unfolds but ALL the parties will get burnt here.
The Conservatives are already burned to a crisp on this one.
They made a huge tactical error.
Flaherty should have provided some
meat and potatoes stimulus programme in that speech of his, and should have left the political
party funding alone, and never should have touched the issue of a public service strike ban.
"that I'm not a Political Science major but my MBA has come in handy"
for that time when you had to take a dump in the forest, and there weren't any large leaves around.
MBA. Sure. and I am a Rhodes Scholar with a PhD.
Yuck. The idiocy hurts.
The next time there is a vote in Ottawa the Tory government will FALL!!!
Game over. End of Story. Thanks for coming out.
But all you Tories out there don't need to worry, because the Liberals NDP coalition will not survive past the Grit leadership race.
Watch for their separatist "partner" to pull the plug on the day the new Liberal leader announces how pleased he is to be the new Prime Minister of Canada.
And the fun will continue.
Actually, the blogger who referenced Grade 10 was kind of right it is actually part of the Grade 11 Curriculum. BUT it depends on your teacher if he/she wanted to teach it so maybe the blogger's school did.
But man this blog has become childish, its no wonder the parliament is the way it is. Arrogance and stupidity is not only found in Ottawa and Victoria but also alive and well in Robert Burnaby's blog.
BC HIGH SCHOOL CURRICULUM SOCIAL STUDIES 11: PRESCRIBED LEARNING OUTCOMES SKILLS AND PROCESSES OF SOCIAL STUDIES
POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT
It is expected that students will:
• demonstrate understanding of the political spectrum
• explain how Canadians can effect change at the federal and provincial levels
• explain how federal and provincial governments are formed in Canada
• describe major provisions of the Canadian constitution, including the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms, and assess its impact on Canadian society
"Not how it works. It's total number of seats obtained not the percentage that counts."
So you prove my point. Combined, the Coalition won 7,528,737 votes and 163 seats. The Tories won 5,208,796 votes and 143 seats.
The coalition represents many more people and seats than the Conservatives do.
According to our constitutional convention, based on the British Westminster system in practice in parliaments around the world, the prime minister can only govern if he has the confidence of the House. Unfortunately for Mr. Harper, he doesn’t.
So you prove my point. Combined, the Coalition won 7,528,737 votes and 163 seats. The Tories won 5,208,796 votes and 143 seats.
The coalition represents many more people and seats than the Conservatives do.
The coalition did not exist before
December 1st. It was never a politial entity during the campaign.
Both the Liberals and the NDP ran as distinctly seperated parties with absolutely no agreement that they together with the Bloc would
try to formulate a government.
"According to our constitutional convention, based on the British Westminster system in practice in parliaments around the world, the prime minister can only govern if he has the confidence of the House. Unfortunately for Mr. Harper, he doesn’t."
He did when he sat in the House on the first Day of the Sitting after the election was completed.
"He did when he sat in the House on the first Day of the Sitting after the election was completed."
That was when he misled parliament when he said we will work with the other parties for an economic stimulus package to get Canada out of the economic downturn but but instead he produced a provocative I will destroy the three parties by taking away their only means of funding. What would you think would happen? Its similar to wacking a hornets nest with a stick, the consequences is that you'll get stung and stung he got.
Only way to remedy this is to prorogue the government because I can't see the GG spending another $300 million for another election.
That was when he misled parliament when he said we will work with the other parties for an economic stimulus package to get Canada out of the economic downturn but but instead he produced a provocative
Good grief. You never stop do you?
There has already been a stimulus package of budgeting for infrastructre, tax reductions, etc.
I will destroy the three parties by taking away their only means of funding.
It's not "the only means of funding". It's only one of many means of funding and I agree it should be removed.
Only way to remedy this is to prorogue the government because I can't see the GG spending another $300 million for another election.
So delay the inevitable. I'd say
screw it, go for another election and let the electorate decide.
"Good grief. You never stop do you?"
Just like you Charlie Brown ;)
"There has already been a stimulus package of budgeting for infrastructre, tax reductions, etc."
That was the pre-election 2008 Budget not a new Stimulus package like the other countries have been doing to rectify the current recession.
"It's not "the only means of funding". It's only one of many means of funding and I agree it should be removed."
For the four parties its the BIGGEST part of their funding which is why we are in this mess to begin with because of Mr. Harper and now he is back tracking. The PM opened the can of worms and now he's paying for it. Do I agree with the so called coalition NO but once an animal is wounded you know what will happen next. If you don't well you have to be a complete imbecile not to.
"So delay the inevitable. I'd say
screw it, go for another election and let the electorate decide."
After tonight's PM's message I'm guessing we won't know until next year. So put up your Christmas lights, put up your tree, buy your presents and enjoy your holidays because this will have to wait until 2009. Merry Christmas Charlie Brown.
If the supporters of the Coalition are equated to you, that group is in worse trouble than they think.
The GG did the right thing.
and dear boy, we elect on the number of seats obtained, not the accumulated percentage of the vote.
if that were true, then Gordo Campbell would have been elected in 1996.
Too bad though. Nice try.
Next time, get out of the house and out in the real field of politics for a change.
You definately need more than one field trip to a campaign office and/or to a political party riding association.
Chucky, Chucky, Chucky
You are so wrong. I hate the Coalition. I hate Communist Jack and the Dumb Dion. There is no way Dion could have orchestrated this without Communist Jack pulling the strings. Remember Communist Jack initiated the talks with the Bloc but without Dion there is no way this Coalition could overtake the Tories. Communist Jack sold him on the idea of Coalition and being the dumbass that Dion is/was and to get a second chance at becoming PM he took it. Look it how bad his taped message was. A 2 year old child could have done a better job.
He is no leader. He never blames himself. He blames the CTV for his loss in the last election and now he is blaming his advisors for his taped message.
As for you, Chuck,Lucy, must have been pulling the football away from you too much as you have been landing on your head way too many times. Plus we can see the veins popping from your bald head and neck young boy. Calm down and take a chill pill.
You are proving my point, a combined Coalition of 163 SEATS obtained is more than the 143 SEATS the Conservatives obtained. So if my calculations are correct Chuck that is 20 more SEATS than the Conservatives. You and I don't like it but it has happened here, Italy and Israel.
I agree with you Chuck that Gordo got jobbed in the 1996 BC General Election but because the way the 75 SEATS were distributed as compared to the 79 SEATS we have today he unfortunately lost with more total and percentage of the votes during that year. Further, not knowing the voter turnout during that year that could have also affected the outcome.
So you are comparing apples and oranges or in this case with yourself and Homer Simpson. Two very different characters but the same bald head and intelligence.
Plus Chuck, I'm guessing you are in your twenties or close to it. I have been involved in so many campaigns I'm sick and tired of it. I just get a kick reading the stuff that's on here, Stephen Taylor's Blog and on Bourque.
I try to be constructive and intelligent about it but people are just so nasty. Hey its understandable but as soon as you start insulting someone well..But its time to get a life and earn real money. My advice to you is become a lawyer, doctor, PSAC member, accountant, or a boring Human Resources Manager like me that reads this stuff for enjoyment. You'll understand Chuck. And by the way Merry Christmas Chuck to you and your family.
"You are so wrong. I hate the Coalition. I hate Communist Jack and the Dumb Dion. There is no way Dion could have orchestrated this without Communist Jack pulling the strings. Remember Communist Jack initiated the talks with the Bloc but without Dion there is no way this Coalition could overtake the Tories. "
Well so what? It means the Liberals sold themselves out and it is beginning to show. A crappy presentation by Dion and some Liberals are already getting cold feet.
So Dion led the Liberals into a mess, which isn't all that surprising.
This coalition was doomed to fail,
and it will.
"Communist Jack sold him on the idea of Coalition and being the dumbass that Dion is/was and to get a second chance at becoming PM he took it. Look it how bad his taped message was. A 2 year old child could have done a better job. "
Sure. But look at Dion in the House the other evening. Ranting like a 2 year old.
"He is no leader. He never blames himself. He blames the CTV for his loss in the last election and now he is blaming his advisors for his taped message."
Well his advisors did put the tape together.
You are proving my point, a combined Coalition of 163 SEATS obtained is more than the 143 SEATS the Conservatives obtained. So if my calculations are correct Chuck that is 20 more SEATS than the Conservatives. You and I don't like it but it has happened here, Italy and Israel.
Sorry you're still wrong. You're missing one important point. Canada does not elect on the basis of coalitions. It elects on the first past the post on the basis of a party receiving the largest number of seats available.
Canada does not use the same electoral system as does Italy and Israel.
I agree with you Chuck that Gordo got jobbed in the 1996 BC General Election but because the way the 75 SEATS were distributed as compared to the 79 SEATS we have today he unfortunately lost with more total and percentage of the votes during that year. Further, not knowing the voter turnout during that year that could have also affected the outcome.
Well that's the fault of the first past the post system that we use, but live with it until it is democratically changed by the people. Until then, live with it.
So you are comparing apples and oranges or in this case with yourself and Homer Simpson. Two very different characters but the same bald head and intelligence.
Speak for yourself.
Plus Chuck, I'm guessing you are in your twenties or close to it. I have been involved in so many campaigns I'm sick and tired of it.
Only two, eh? Working a campaign for the NDP does wear out a person, doesn't it?
I just get a kick reading the stuff that's on here, Stephen Taylor's Blog and on Bourque.
Well whatever propells your boat.
I try to be constructive and intelligent about it but people are just so nasty. Hey its understandable but as soon as you start insulting someone well..But its time to get a life and earn real money.
Already do so, chump.Senior management position in a company
that is doing very well financially. $7 million in gross sales this year. Not bad.
My advice to you is become a lawyer, doctor, PSAC member, accountant, or a boring Human Resources Manager like me that reads this stuff for enjoyment. You'll understand Chuck. And by the way Merry Christmas Chuck to you and your family.
and Bah Humbug to you.
Here's a bit of sound advice:
Want to make money?
Go to the greyhound track and bet on the rabbit. The rabbit's outcome is a sure thing.
Okay, a good example is this.
There are 100 dollars for 11 people,
A promises each 10 dollars .
B promises 5 people 20 dollars .
C promises 2 people 50 dollars each.
then
4 ppl voted for B, 2 ppl voted for A and 5 ppl voted for C.
Then B and C just decide to make a "pact" and then rob that 100 dollars to distribution among the 6 people. So is this "democracy".
Half of the liberals would have voted for tories if Dion said he wanted to appoint Jack Layton into his "coalition government". Canada is not democratic enough to have a proportional system and this is the perfect example. Even under proportional system like in Japan, the socialist would have been wiped by aligning with a corporate sponsored party. Come next election, the voters will make their own judgment.
Okay, a good example is this.
There are 100 dollars for 11 people,
A promises each 10 dollars .
B promises 5 people 20 dollars .
C promises 2 people 50 dollars each.
then
4 ppl voted for B, 2 ppl voted for A and 5 ppl voted for C.
Then B and C just decide to make a "pact" and then rob that 100 dollars to distribution among the 6 people. So is this "democracy".
The model is based on proportional voting, in other words, if a party wins 15% of the vote, they receive 15% of the total number of available seats. This is what happens in elections in Germany.
In Canada such a scenario does not exist. A party wins 15 seats and receives those 15 seats no matter if they got 5% of the total vote nationally or 20% of the vote nationally.
Half of the liberals would have voted for tories if Dion said he wanted to appoint Jack Layton into his "coalition government".
The problem with that is you're moving into political situations that would require assent from either Caucus or the membership at a policy convention that passed a resolution. Generally, political parties do not cross political boundaries. There is much ideaologicial differences between the NDP and the Liberals.
A quasi attempt was made in with the Greens in one riding, whereby the Liberals would not run against Elizabeth May. That failed and resulted in Peter MacKay getting re-elected.
Canada is not democratic enough to have a proportional system and this is the perfect example.
Would not say "democratic enough".
Just different. It's no different than the system that's used in the UK. It also does not exist in other Westminster system based countries such as Australia. Australia does use a preferential system, but in the end, the party with the most seats earns the privilege of government.
The coalition's supporters saying they are the "65%" are correct but they were incorrect in trying to turn this thing into something akin
to the Liberals/NDP/BQ running as a coalition in the last election.
That did not happen.
The Liberals and NDP ran against each other in every riding except one (where the Liberals did not run a candidate where Elizabeth May ran).
Layton was savaging Dion's policies
in the national debate.
There is no mechanicism in place to have Canadians decide if they wish to change the electoral system. That would require assent from the politicians to start and also even to get it started the parties would have to agree, and that simply isn't going to happen.
No federal party has yet to pass a resolution endorsing the revision of the electoral system to a proportional system.
The proposal in BC is not for propotional representation, but rather preferential in choices.
The outcome is the same whether first past the post or preferential -- the party with the most number of available seats becomes the party of government.
Even under proportional system like in Japan, the socialist would have been wiped by aligning with a corporate sponsored party. Come next election, the voters will make their own judgment.
Ans so they should. It's our decision to make as to who or what is government, not three people on a junior league power play.
Bonjour, burnabypolitics.blogspot.com!
[url=http://farmaciacialis.fora.pl/ ]venta de cialis en espana[/url] [url=http://cialisfarmacia.fora.pl/ ]vendo cialis en espana[/url] [url=http://medicocialis.fora.pl/ ]venta de cialis online[/url] [url=http://cialisbarata.fora.pl/ ]venta de cialis online[/url] [url=http://escialisonline.fora.pl/ ] cialis en espana[/url] [url=http://cialismasbarata.fora.pl/ ] cialis [/url]
Post a Comment
<< Home