Computergate
The City of Burnaby's computer system could fast be becoming a boondoggle. An investment that originally cost a more than reasonable $3.9-million has grown to more than six times that figure, in part due to an excessively low bid on the contract.
If unified and organized, a strong case could be made by TEAM Burnaby to try some new leadership at City Hall a year from now as much like the computer system being replaced the Burnaby Citizens' Association has had been running the city for two decades.
If unified and organized, a strong case could be made by TEAM Burnaby to try some new leadership at City Hall a year from now as much like the computer system being replaced the Burnaby Citizens' Association has had been running the city for two decades.
posted by Robert Burnaby at 3:43 PM
44 Comments:
Here we go with THAT again.
The problem with Team is that they are running old software that has a tendency to commit fatal errors during critical run-time, crashes and the software has never been a top producer in the marketplace.
It's also fatware, costs alot to run and upgrades aren't easily available.
The design team doesn't design in terms of efficiency and spends alot of time in developing additional things that aren't needed.
The support is abysmal.
It also takes up alot of space.
The people behind this junk aren't the best in the business.
At least TeamSoft is not infected with the virus called socialism, ie, everyone is equal, just some are more equal than others.
TeamSoft may be in need of a few updates and critical system error patches, but it does run, and almost ran the competition off the field last time around.
TeamSoft is proof that you dont have to do everything right, just do more right than the competition.
"At least TeamSoft is not infected with the virus called socialism, ie, everyone is equal, just some are more equal than others."
TeamSoft is infected with the Bloy Boy trojan horse. Stays within until the right conditions and then
takes over the operating system
and creates havoc. There's nothing that can get rid of it once it's in the operating system.
"TeamSoft may be in need of a few updates and critical system error patches, but it does run, and almost ran the competition off the field last time around."
A few updates? The entire software needs to be replaced. It was marketed to try and overrun the competition, but failed.
When products fail in their goals, the design team needs to be replaced with those who can do a better job.
"TeamSoft is proof that you dont have to do everything right, just do more right than the competition."
Which is where TeamSoft failed miserably.
TeamSoft was supposed to be the operating system for Burnaby.
Instead it ended up in the garbage.
Again.
Version 3.0 doesn't seem to have much promise either. It's just the same core programming with fancy packaging.
sad but true for most of the above comment on TEAMsoft. last i heard the software was not even completely paid for.
maybe a few good independents would be more trustworthy than the TEAMsters.
are the TEAMsters still shooting each other in the back alleys? or has harry whipped them back into shape?
Team Bloy members are still shooting each other in the back alleys while other Team Bloy members are shooting themselves in the foot.
Meanwhile, no one has pistol-whipped Harry for getting too far into civic politics.
An NDP leader in a government without a sense of fiscal responsibility, is that supposed to be a surprise for anyone? No worries, the voters always know what to do when things like this happen to us.
Sure they vote for those who represent the interests of the community as a whole, not those of a power hungry MLA.
Team Burnaby should talk though. They still haven't paid for all debts incurred from the last campaign from what has been known out on the street and these guys want to run the city? With directions from a power hungry MLA?
and let's not forget the $500,000 in excessive spending on an office within the Ministry of Children and Families for a 'First Nations' atmosphere for which the money would have been better spent on the kids who need help.
Actually it isn't the Burnaby Citizens Association. Its actually the city's engineering and City Clerk's office.
The BCA majority just got stuck with faulty computer software. Nothing new there.
If Team Burnaby (oops Team Bloy) had a majority they still would have been stuck with the same problem as software like that isn't simply a matter of going to Best Buy and buying Microsoft Money or Quickbooks off the shelf.
The provincial government spent a huge amount of money on their website services which didn't need to be spent, which resulted in the government website being far more clumsy to use than it was originally.
What the voters should do is to punish those who have sided with the mayor on this disastrous decision without blinking an eye. 10 million dollars of our money is no small feast and without an opposition that in fact represents the people actually keeping the government accountable, these BCA politicians will simply give unanimous consent on any decision ordered by their leader. And opposition that cant say to the people that they are 100% opposed to irresponsible government should remain in the opposition indefinitely.
"What the voters should do is to punish those who have sided with the mayor on this disastrous decision without blinking an eye. "
Partially, but it's not an excuse to completely replace. If your rule held true, then the BC Liberals could be punished for some of the errors they have since assuming office such as overspending on the Ministry of Children and Families, not to mention the so-called 'guarantee' the Premier made on the new Convention Centre.
"10 million dollars of our money is no small feast and without an opposition that in fact represents the people actually keeping the government accountable, these BCA politicians will simply give unanimous consent on any decision ordered by their leader."
Any different than let's say Team Burnaby councillors adhering to
Mayor Lee and consequently indirectly Harry Bloy?
" And opposition that cant say to the people that they are 100% opposed to irresponsible government should remain in the opposition indefinitely."
The BC Liberals could qualify for that on a few things.
The City ended up with a bad deal which could not at the time of signing the contract be forseen.
Some BCA Councillors were opposed to continuing the system, but the best thing is to make good on bad situation.
Similar situations happen in business and one only has to look to the Capital Region in Victoria to see that the CREST system (emergency services radio) has not worked to the point it is accepted by the police and fire there, but the system is being revised.
Is this one issue one to move the entire civic electorate in Burnaby to replace the entire BCA council?
Hardly.
The software problems originate with the supplier, not the council.
Ohter than this, Burnaby's finances are in good shape, and the majority council seems to be doing what the public wants.
No, certainly 10 million dollars is too small an amount to remove our mayor and his BCA rubber stampers from the government. So here lies between our so called popularly elected mayor compared with business leaders, our mayor believes that his "mandate" gives him the right for total governance over his term while business leaders are constantly under the pressure from stakeholders to either perform or otherwise resign.
So how many more dollars will it take before BCA councilors, supposedly the representatives of the people, to start voting against their mayor? Last time I remembered over at Victoria, I think just about everyone who did not oppose with our premier got wiped out in the following election. So it is up to their decision to either vote with the people, or to vote with their mayor.
No, certainly 10 million dollars is too small an amount to remove our mayor and his BCA rubber stampers from the government.
"Wouldn't be much different with Team Burnaby. The phrase "govern with consensus" and "Team Burnaby" don't go together since it's already been seen that T/B Board members have been replaced not with wide across the group elections, but by rather 'hand-picked' people set by their dictatorial leader Harry Bloy."
"So here lies between our so called popularly elected mayor compared with business leaders, our mayor believes that his "mandate" gives him the right for total governance over his term while business leaders are constantly under the pressure from stakeholders to either perform or otherwise resign.
Doesn't the same hold true for Gordon Campbell?? In other words, total governance over his term?
The comparison between business and government leaders doesn't hold much water. Stakeholders own a part of the company, while the members in a political party do not have much weighted impact as they once did. The members are just sources of revenue for the party, not much more.
"So how many more dollars will it take before BCA councilors, supposedly the representatives of the people, to start voting against their mayor?"
Why would they? WOuld Team Burnaby vote against its own Mayor if one
was elected? Would Harry Bloy allow that to happen, esp. if the mayor was his friend Lee Rankin??
A bit of hyprocrisy there since it was several weeks ago that Team Burnaby was reported to be ragging on Gary begin for his voting for one ad by the City of Burnaby in regards to the Gateway project.
"Last time I remembered over at Victoria, I think just about everyone who did not oppose with our premier got wiped out in the following election. So it is up to their decision to either vote with the people, or to vote with their mayor."
Which in either case doesn't nessesarily mean a large majority win for Team Burnaby (oops should be Team Bloy.)
If Harry Bloy does allow dictorial control over "his party", Gary Evans would have been expelled long ago. True, Gary might as well run with BCA next year, but the question is will he win? Make no mistake tho, every single vote against his own party is recorded in the books and few more votes like this will be enough to take him out of the party nomination.
Our dictorial mayor continues to ignore any need to consult with the public. 199,999 of the people in Burnaby cannot even have a say on $20,000,000 that we paid out to the government? Why should our mayor consult with us when he throws away another 50 dollars I paid out of my pocket, I mean, he and his people on the council do have a mandate from the people dont they?
Fortunately, those 199,999 do have a stake in the government, and a vote of confidence on BCA will come soon enough. True, Corrigan may not care what happens to BCA since he wants a good seat in Victoria when he sees Carole James on the way out, but if he can ride on his "record" a the chief executive of the city, then he may be running into troubles quite fast.
"If Harry Bloy does allow dictorial control over "his party", Gary Evans would have been expelled long ago."
There is no person named Gary Evans. You're probably thinking Gary Begin but if that's true, Harry would be really stupid to force Gary Begin out since Begin received the second highest volume of votes and is well liked in the city.
Besides, it's not Harry's decision to do so. It's technically up to the Board of the Directors as a collective, but I am sure they would not be dumb enough to do something like that since it generates bad publicity for a group that isn't exactly stellar to begin with.
"True, Gary might as well run with BCA next year, but the question is will he win?"
Gary begin would not run with the BCA as they require NDP membership and he does not possess such a thing and he doesn't agree to everything the BCA does and there's no reason for him do so.
Where does this aspect of Begin running with the BCA come from?
Cite? Are you willing to bet $500 that Gary Begin does?
Gary Begin has a long time member of the community and is well liked by alot of voters.
"Make no mistake tho, every single vote against his own party is recorded in the books and few more votes like this will be enough to take him out of the party nomination."
It would be Team Burnaby's loss, and besides if he decided to run as an Independent, your statement would be irrevelant.
If this recorded vote against his own party is the way Team Burnaby operates, then why bother with it?
Civic politics works quite differently than federal or provincial since technically there's no formal caucus, just a friendly agreements on this or that.
In fact who decides? Begin has a similar length of service as does Rankin and both councillors have length of services going back much further than Team Burnaby has existed in its various versions.
"Our dictorial mayor continues to ignore any need to consult with the public. 199,999 of the people in Burnaby cannot even have a say on $20,000,000 that we paid out to the government?"
Why would they? Let'sturn to the BC Liberals -- do people have a say on the $500,000 excessive spending on the office with the Ministry of Children and Families? The Convention Centre?
" Why should our mayor consult with us when he throws away another 50 dollars I paid out of my pocket, I mean, he and his people on the council do have a mandate from the people dont they?"
They have been given a mandate to govern the city in the best way, it is not attributable to any one individual or group. They have managed the city's financies fairly well (except for the computer system).
"Fortunately, those 199,999 do have a stake in the government, and a vote of confidence on BCA will come soon enough."
Considering that only 30% of the voters registered (which by the way does not equal 199,999 citizens) actually turn out to vote and of those, there is more tendency to vote individually on the conservative/liberal side while there's more tendency to vote slate on the NDP side.
"True, Corrigan may not care what happens to BCA since he wants a good seat in Victoria when he sees Carole James on the way out,"
What makes you think he does? He may decide to run again for Mayor or go back to full time practising law. Corrigan would not sit on the backbenches in Opposition.
It's laughable that people think Corrigan would run in 2009's provincial election when he hasn't said what he is going to do.
"but if he can ride on his "record" a the chief executive of the city, then he may be running into troubles quite fast."
Somewhat true. but again, Team Burnaby is fast becoming a small member band with Harry leading the conducting and the song and dance needs to be caned off the stage.
Gary Begin (correction) did receive high number of votes, but partly due to his membership with a popular anti-establishment party, let us not kid ourselves and say that he can actually win as an independent and I too hope Gary Begin is not naive enough to believe that his high volume of votes due to his "popularity" in his community gives him to the right to break with BCA against the wishes of the people who votes for him to keep the government accountable.
And why is BCL suddenly involved in our discussion of our mayor's financial mismanagement who is billing us extra without even sending any of us an itemized receipt. So our BCA councilors should continue to rubber stamp any bill dropped on their desks from the mayor's office because our Premier at Victoria is overspending. What about Harper government not complying with Kyoto protocol, why not just blame the attention on our mayor's mismanagement on global warming altogether, wouldnt that make it a whole bunch easier.
True, 30% of the people registered and 50% of those NDP/pro-mayor camp decide to hi-jack the city government by electing their own people to dominate the council. But if they think they can continue to ignore the people, all 85% of them according your calculation,, shouldnt BCA concern themselves with being wiped out in the next election? If I am not mistaken, it takes 50% of the votes for T/B to wipe BCA out, but 85% will certainly be a nice mandate to have.
"Gary Begin (correction) did receive high number of votes, but partly due to his membership with a popular anti-establishment party,"
Well yes and no, considering from what I read, they dumped him in nomination than decided they wanted him back. Not too smart. He should have just said the hell with it and not run after going through that.
Many BCA supporters voted for Gary.
To say Gary Begin's support base is 100% Team Burnaby is wrong.
" let us not kid ourselves and say that he can actually win as an independent and I too hope Gary Begin is not naive enough to believe that his high volume of votes due to his "popularity" in his community gives him to the right to break with BCA against the wishes of the people who votes for him to keep the government accountable."
He is only accountable to his supporters. It also bears noting that voting for one ad should not mean the end of political work. I think Team Burnaby is making something out of nothing. There's much bigger things to think about in Burnaby than squealing over the vote over one ad which has not even shown up in the papers yet.
Gary has said he is for the Gateway Project and voted for this ad because the Gateway Project Management has not done a satisfactory job in working with the City on issues. Since his vote was not a money issue, there's nothing wrong with it, since Team Burnaby has no official policy (the Gateway Project was not on the policy statements in 2005).
"And why is BCL suddenly involved in our discussion of our mayor's financial mismanagement who is billing us extra without even sending any of us an itemized receipt."
Is Harry Bloy not BCL? Is not many of the Team Burnaby campaign people BCL?? In fact I read that two of the key T/B people were or are BCL organizers. So the comparative fits.
Where is Corrigan billing the citizens extra?
"So our BCA councilors should continue to rubber stamp any bill dropped on their desks from the mayor's office because our Premier at Victoria is overspending. What about Harper government not complying with Kyoto protocol, why not just blame the attention on our mayor's mismanagement on global warming altogether, wouldnt that make it a whole bunch easier."
Give it time, the Team Burnaby people will figure out a way.
True, 30% of the people registered and 50% of those NDP/pro-mayor camp decide to hi-jack the city government by electing their own people to dominate the council.
Since when is voting considered hi-jacking? Could the same be applied to Gordon Campbell in 2001 or Harper or Chretien federally?
But if they think they can continue to ignore the people, all 85% of them according your calculation,, shouldnt BCA concern themselves with being wiped out in the next election? If I am not mistaken, it takes 50% of the votes for T/B to wipe BCA out, but 85% will certainly be a nice mandate to have.
That won't happen. SImply because only 30% of the electorate actually votes, and the electorate is not 100% of the total population.
In addition, people do tend to vote individually rather than 100% slate.
For me, I never vote slate, I choose those from both sides who I figure will do a good job irregardless if they are BCA, Team Burnaby or Independents. In fact I voted for Lee Rankin when he ran as an Independent once. Also voted
for him when he was BCA simply because he was in my mind a good councillor.
I've seen junk from both Team Burnaby and the BCA, and have seen junk from the BVA and I never vote for junk candidates.
As it stands right now, there are only two Team Burnaby persons should they seek and win nomination that I would vote for.
Given the antics of Team Burnaby and their attitude I would not vote the entire slate and even one of those persons I would support is currently on thin ice in my mind.
As for the BCA side, there's only maybe two that I would vote for in council, I would not vote for Corrigan.
Gary Begin, along with all the TEAM candidates for council, signed a contract to support the four themes of the campaign. One of which was to oppose any tax increase greater than 1% per year. He has already broken that (signed) commitment last spring so there is an integrity issue with him as well. I doubt he will run with T/B again.
"Gary Begin, along with all the TEAM candidates for council, signed a contract to support the four themes of the campaign. One of which was to oppose any tax increase greater than 1% per year. He has already broken that (signed) commitment last spring so there is an integrity issue with him as well. I doubt he will run with T/B again."
Oh well. I don't think he would lose any sleep over not being able to run for Team Burnaby, and that would hold true for many of his friends and supporters.
He has two choices - either run as an Independent or end his service to the city, either of which are plausible scenarios. He's had a very lengthy time of service to Burnaby, so he can - unlike some Team Burnaby wannabe candidates - do what he likes and many people in Burnaby would support his decisions and Gary would probably continue his well known voluntary service in the community in any event.
Technically the campaign ended the day after election day so the contract if there was one unless there was a clause specifically stated "if elected, I will adhere to (name of stated policy here), would be invalid.
Its rather unusual to hold candidates specific to policies after an election since policies evolve and if the city did in fact require an increase in taxation, Team Burnaby councillors would vote for it irregardless since taxation is not set into granite since there are always unforseen additional civic expenses and programmes.
For example, would Team Burnaby rescind further park and road improvements if the total required a 1.5% increase in taxation in FY 2006? Rescind recreational programmes? Rescind homeless shelters?
Limitation to no more than 1% taxation is a bit too restrictive since costs do go up each year and eventually that 1% limitation is going to cause cutbacks in essential services since some costs could require 1.5% increase in taxation if the City was to expand publicly available services. If that 1% was widened out to be twice more than the annual rate of inflation as measured with GDP then there is more room for covering additional costs.
Most businesses do not have such a severe restriction on their annual budgeting and neither does the provincial government.
Team Burnaby has alot of ground to cover in terms of credibility on many things other than issues with Gary Begin (he'll have to live with his decisons - that's the way it is in politics, some of his decisions I didn't like myself, but he'll have to live with what he decided) , and whether that ground can be made up and exceeded to the point where Team Burnaby is a something as a whole the voters would universally suppport remains to be seen.
But it is up to the voters to decide if they figure Team Burnaby majority will be the best thing for Burnaby. It may be, but then again depending on how Team Burnaby markets itself and acts in the year ahead, we shall see.
Yeah. I guess that makes sense. If he moved to team ONLY to get elected, he would not lose any sleep over breaking a written commitment.
Then again that might explain why the BCA would not have him either. They too expect some integrity of those who run under their banner.
"Yeah. I guess that makes sense. If he moved to team ONLY to get elected, he would not lose any sleep over breaking a written commitment. "
I doubt it was him explicity wanting to move into Team. From what I heard and read, it was Team that asked him to be a candidate when another left.
"Then again that might explain why the BCA would not have him either. They too expect some integrity of those who run under their banner."
Wrong there. It's more philosophy
than anything else, it's compulsory for BCA candidates to retain NDP membership, and that requires adherence to basic NDP political thought, which Gary does not possess. He also doesn't like alot of the candidates in the BCA despite having worked with and for them over the years.
If the BCA wanted integrity in their candidates, they wouldn't have selected Colleen Jordan nor Pietro Caledino.
Seems that you're making a big deal over nothing.
Which for Team Burnaby (read Team Bloy) isn't all that unusual.
When is the last time political philosophy actually matters in his decision to back the government. Like many politicians, Gary Begin is looking to side with power because after all there is really not much fun in opposition anyway. With the knowledge that the government is facing a weak opposition, he really has not much to lose by voting with the government.
But with the strong mandate awarded to BCA by NDP loyalists about to expire, Gary's votes against the people are starting to matter. It is becoming more obvious with each passing day that Gary does not put much thought into his votes and is in the process of failing as a city
BCA councilors have seconded the mayor's decision which has wasted his own people close to $100 bucks per person without a sense of guilt. Do they honestly believe that this sort of loyalty is will bring them another mandate to govern the city?
Certainly Gary knows he cant have it both ways, siding with the government while still believing he actually speaks for the people of the city. If he endorses this sort of wasteful spending, then vote with the mayor, if he endorses fiscal responsibility for the people, the vote with people. His decision to back the mayor clearly shows that a long resume does not constitute good judgment.
So what is good judgment? It is the decision to give the people a clear message that T/B is against wasteful spending. Otherwise, asking the people to have T/B bring in a new vision for the city will continue to be a fairytale. Bring in a mayoral candidate with a reformer image that will bring diversity to the city hall, bring in a team that is willing to oppose the incumbent government, and bring in a new vision that will promise fiscal constraint. Otherwise, Gary and his BCA fellows will continue to dominate the city council that continue to overlook the mandate of the silent majority.
"When is the last time political philosophy actually matters in his decision to back the government. "
It doesn't but there's adherence to
basic political philosophy in the NDP as there is with the Conservatives and Liberals (provincial and federal). Acceptance of basic politial philosophies is pretty much the norm in any major political party including the BC Liberals.
"Like many politicians, Gary Begin is looking to side with power because after all there is really not much fun in opposition anyway."
Not really. He's more community minded than power minded, his record of volunteer work in the city is well known to many in Burnaby.
Harry Bloy is more bent on securing power than Gary would.
Gary most likely doesn't need any quest for power. But sadly Harry semes to be overdosing on it.
" With the knowledge that the government is facing a weak opposition, he really has not much to lose by voting with the government."
Perhaps.
"But with the strong mandate awarded to BCA by NDP loyalists about to expire, Gary's votes against the people are starting to matter."
Is it a vote "against the people"? I doubt that. It was more sending a
message to Gateway Management to improve their position in relationship with the city, which has not been satisfactory. It's better to work together than being opposed and his vote on the ad was
to send a signal to Gateway, not much more.
Gateway is an important project and the majority of Burnaby citizens support it, but there is much work to be done in the co-operative department on both sides.
If Team Burnaby accepts the direction of Gateway on 100% of everything, 100% then they are not really taking the citizen's concerns to task (peeling away the NDP position) and therefore would not be adequately representing Burnaby's interests.
Team Burnaby is not a blindly loyal unit of the BC Liberal Party (or is it? If it is, then it really should rethink its reasons for existence).
"It is becoming more obvious with each passing day that Gary does not put much thought into his votes and is in the process of failing as a city "
Disagree there.
"BCA councilors have seconded the mayor's decision which has wasted his own people close to $100 bucks per person without a sense of guilt."
and that decision being: ________.
"Do they honestly believe that this sort of loyalty is will bring them another mandate to govern the city? "
Would it be equatable to the same loyality to Gordon Campbell and his approval of wasteful spending?
"Certainly Gary knows he cant have it both ways, siding with the government while still believing he actually speaks for the people of the city."
Gary most likely spends more time
speaking for the people of the city, rather than the provincial government, since he is not a representative of the provincial government. The MLA's have that role.
"If he endorses this sort of wasteful spending, then vote with the mayor, if he endorses fiscal responsibility for the people, the vote with people. His decision to back the mayor clearly shows that a long resume does not constitute good judgment."
Depends on what that spending was for. A short resume doesn't constitute good judgement either.
"So what is good judgment? It is the decision to give the people a clear message that T/B is against wasteful spending."
Definition of wasteful spending is very subjective. What may be wasteful spending to one is optimum spending to another. For example suppose that some people in the 2005 T/B campaign were paid for roles that are by nature voluntary, such as signs. So that would be wasteful spending of campaign funds in many people's minds.
"Otherwise, asking the people to have T/B bring in a new vision for the city will continue to be a fairytale."
In many ways T/B is a fairytale since T/B has made errors in many
aspects of local politics.
"Bring in a mayoral candidate with a reformer image that will bring diversity to the city hall, bring in a team that is willing to oppose the incumbent government, and bring in a new vision that will promise fiscal constraint.
I would much rather have an unencumbered new Mayor who has a vision for the city which does not include goals and objectives from
an MLA.
"Otherwise, Gary and his BCA fellows will continue to dominate the city council that continue to overlook the mandate of the silent majority."
So Gary is BCA now, is he? Cite?
If he is supportive of some (but not all) of BCA decisions if he has chatted with key people who agree with his positions, so what?
He's working like a councillor, not a puppet of the provincial government.
T/B is making civic politics out for what it should not be. Explicit
control on councillor decisions, and once again they aren't really looking at the big picture.
Which for Team Burnaby isn't new.
Some of the observations done by Team Burnaby are a bit over the top.
Team Burnaby should exist to represent good governance for the city, not be supermarionation (puppeteering) for the provincial BC Liberals.
Anyway, enough on this silly subject.
The voters will decide.
Questioning a city councilor's commitment to the city that we vote into the council is no silly thing. It is certainly not "political" to actually want to hold him responsible for his votes.
I too think it is enough since what is the point spending time and energy discussing a councilor that I believe should be expelled immediately so that he can join the mayor's party as he wishes. The voters will decide if they want to be governed by the same party after more than 20 years or to remove them in place for a new government that is willing to practice fiscal restraint to the highest degree for a change.
However, I dont think expulsion is necessary. Now 12 months before the election, I dont think T/B can stand any division if they want to govern. I have no ill feeling towards Gary because I believe he does have the passion to serve the community. But as a councilor serving in the opposition, it is his duty to keep watch on the cost over-run and in this case is not cheap at all. Otherwise his loyalty to both his own party and the people of city will be questioned.
True, Corrigan had his own share of popularity and Buranby did give him another mandate to govern. But I do think it is time for a new vision and I believe that BCA, which continues to vote along party line, is not likely going to bring change for hte city.
With election to be held a year from now, it is time for both parties to show the people what they can offer. Whoever has the votes of the people, not the party members, will govern the city. Do voters have enough confidence in the government or are they ready for a change, it is up to both sides to work to gain the confidence of the people. To quote from my fellow poster here, "the voters will decide".
"I too think it is enough since what is the point spending time and energy discussing a councilor that I believe should be expelled immediately so that he can join the mayor's party as he wishes."
Why would he do that? There's nothing out there that says he would or has a desire to.
Someone is obviously freaking out over nothing.
Obviously someone had too much sugar.
Again, and it bears repeating as
someone previously posted..
"the voters will decide".
" doubt it was him explicity wanting to move into Team. From what I heard and read, it was Team that asked him to be a candidate when another left."
Wrongo on that one. Gary Begin was indeed invited to join T/B. He did along with his "class of 59" cheerleader friend. But the members of Team must have doubted whether he would actually do what he was promising because they denied him a spot on the slate in a wide open race. There were several integrity issues already evident. Many more have come out since. Given a chance the members will know what to do again in 08. In any case he has not no longer lived in Burnaby for many years. I have no doubt the long drive from White Rock is starting to get to him.
Did someone say he still does public service here with a drive like that? - I doubt it.
"In any case he has not no longer lived in Burnaby for many years."
I believe he does in fact have a residence here in Burnaby.
You might want to revisit that one,
or at least ask him.
You seem to be freaking out over nothing.
There was a T/B candidate who lived in Coquitlam and never had any community work in Burnaby.
Might also want to look at the mirror in the morning.
What you will see is a troubled individual.
When Gary ran for the Team B nomination last time around the members voted against him being on the slate.
The message here is that the membership knew more than the skirts and suits you found a way to slide him in later (ala Cunningham) because he appeared more electable than many who got more grass root TB support than him.
Burnaby Now (Wed edition) has a story out on the Gary Begin's continuing problems. It also quotes Mr Begin as saying he has no intention of running as an independent - although he obvioulsy intends to continue acting like an independent.
There is only a year until the next election and even less until the next T/B slate is chosen. I expect the members will know what to do when the time comes.
If he runs as an independent I also have faith the voters will give him the boot.
"Burnaby Now (Wed edition) has a story out on the Gary Begin's continuing problems. It also quotes Mr Begin as saying he has no intention of running as an independent - although he obvioulsy intends to continue acting like an independent."
As someone mentioned, there's no explicit partisan positioning at the civic level as there is federally and provincially, since positions taken on council do not reflect politicial posturing (a civic government cannot be defeated between elections by votes done by opposition forces at council.
Some are making civic politics in Burnaby to be something that it should not be.
"There is only a year until the next election and even less until the next T/B slate is chosen. I expect the members will know what to do when the time comes."
and is vote according to Harry Bloy's wishes?? That's probably what happened at the last T/B nomination since there were from what was resourced at the time quite a few "pro-Harry" people up for nomination.
As for Gary getting the boot, it may happen, but may not, it depends on what the voters see in his service to the city.
(irregardless of idiotic political positioning by a few Team Burnaby members).
If I were to talk to him, I'd say
let go forget about another term move on, continue the community work.
Who needs this crap?
No sense in providing activities for grade 5 level adults such as those who have some chip on their shoulder against Begin simply because they can't find anything better to put their mind to use on.
Agree there. Seems that Team Burnaby has become the sandbox for elementary school level dislikes led by someone who obviously doesn't have a life.
As someone mentioned, there's no explicit partisan positioning at the civic level as there is federally and provincially, since positions taken on council do not reflect politicial posturing (a civic government cannot be defeated between elections by votes done by opposition forces at council.
When is the last time the BCA had a member voting with TB and against the BCA?
Some from BCA did and as an incumbent lost the nomination race to our mayor's own appointees. Why? Because BCA has always been dictated by our mayor against the people. That is why the people of Burnaby have elected a strong opposition to keep the government accountable.
But Gary Begin has failed his people by blindly endorsing the government. No one is playing politics by questioning his commitment to represent his people as people are questioning the entire BCA team who may soon be removed from power if people become dissatisfied with the same old same old for over two decades.
But if TB cannot give the people of Burnaby the impression of a new governance for the city, how will they gain the trust of the people. Lee has been opposing the mayor since the first day our mayor got elected, and Garth Evans' popularity in Burnaby is unquestioned as a first time candidate while with Lee Rankin receiving highest number of votes. This contrasts with Gary Begin who by voting against the people has lost the confidence of the party and may not even see himself through the nomination phase as if it is he has a choice to run as an independent.
With only a year away from election, a change of government may come soon enough. But will that government involve the presence of Gary Begin, that is the choice the people have to make.
"When is the last time the BCA had a member voting with TB and against the BCA?"
When was there something that was brought forward by TB that was worth voting for that could be indicative of voting against the BCA?
Such positioning is very rare since all councillors at the civic level are government, and there's not a clear and explicit "government / opposition" as there is provincially and federally.
There's many instances of co-operative voting even in the far more partisan environment in Vancouver.
Many voting outcomes are based on
individual choices, not one from a "caucus".
In fact, the voting choices should be on the basis of what's best for the city, not what's best for the civic electoral organization.
In fact Garth Evans was talking like a little school kid saying "pick me pick me!" when it came to receiving Chinese representatives to Burnaby a few months back, since he has capability in Chinese.
If TB was really down into partisanship, Garth would have been told to stay cold on that one and ignore his otherwise little kid pleas to be the Chinese speaking rep from Council.
"But if TB cannot give the people of Burnaby the impression of a new governance for the city, how will they gain the trust of the people. Lee has been opposing the mayor since the first day our mayor got elected"
If TB continues with this elementary school level smart ass attitude, why would the voters support them?
As for Lee Rankin, he was originally BCA, but left as he failed to obtain a nomination during a time when the NDP was government in Victoria. He then ran as an Independent.
He was most likely NDP provincially as it would have been very doubtful that he would have been provincial Liberal.
He has some kind of chip on his shoulder against Corrigan, but that's just two lawyers who hate each other.
He has voted for what he figures is best for the city, it has little to do with him voting for something that is attached to Team Burnaby policy, since at the civic level, policies from civic political parties are weak compared to those at the federal or provincial level.
Garth Evan's result was more to do with people thinking he was related to the then more known Doug Evans who retired from council.
Ther sure seems to be quite a few smart ass Team Burnaby members who don't try to learn the big picture.
But Team Burnaby will do what Harry Bloy tells them to do anyway.
While the smart voter will pick and choose the best from both the BCA and Team Bloy so there's a workable balance.
Whether it comes out as a BCA or TB majority really doesn't matter.
Except to the smart ass political hacks in Team Burnaby.
"Some from BCA did and as an incumbent lost the nomination race to our mayor's own appointees. "
Actually that incumbent lost because she didn't do her homework and she admitted it as I recall.
"Why? Because BCA has always been dictated by our mayor against the people."
Would Harry Bloy do the same thing? Dictate to the Team Burnaby councillors as to what should be voted on or against via one of his
'handlers' or supporters??
"That is why the people of Burnaby have elected a strong opposition to keep the government accountable."
Since all councillors are government, it is a rather convulted statement to make.
"But Gary Begin has failed his people by blindly endorsing the government."
It's probably more of him doing what he thinks is best for the city right or wrong, since he is as is Evans and Rankin part of the city government.
No one is playing politics by questioning his commitment to represent his people as people are questioning the entire BCA team who may soon be removed from power if people become dissatisfied with the same old same old for over two decades. "
And replaced with what? A BC Liberal version of essentially the same thing?
"But if TB cannot give the people of Burnaby the impression of a new governance for the city, how will they gain the trust of the people."
They won't if they keep up with behaving like elementary school kids.
"Lee has been opposing the mayor since the first day our mayor got elected, and Garth Evans' popularity in Burnaby is unquestioned as a first time candidate"
Considering that much of the vote came from the impression that Garth was related to Doug Evans, that's been said many times in Burnaby political environments.
"while with Lee Rankin receiving highest number of votes. This contrasts with Gary Begin who by voting against the people has lost the confidence of the party and may not even see himself through the nomination phase as if it is he has a choice to run as an independent.
He indeed as a choice to run as an independent. He has no obligation to run again as a Team Burnaby candidate, that's his choice. The smart thing to do is to abandon running next time.
With only a year away from election, a change of government may come soon enough. But will that government involve the presence of Gary Begin, that is the choice the people have to make.
Wrong. The correct assumption is wil that government involve a Team Burnaby majority. If they keep up woth their current level of stupidity and blind loyalty to Harry Bloy, why would any citizen want that?
I'd vote for the best of the candidates not specifically by BCA or Team Burnaby as some candidates in both simply do not deserve to win, and with Team Burnaby's antics lately, T/B certainly is not fit to govern a large city.
The only person positioning for power is the councilor that has decided to vote with power. People can doubt how the leading TB councilors were able to achieve such high number of votes, but it without question a sign that BCA is losing it sense of reality as they cannot even comprehend why they could not beat TB councilors in terms of popularity and votes and it is predicted their votes will only decline as TB prepares itself to remove BCA from power.
The parallel some attempt to draw between Harry Bloy and our mayor have failed to leave any impression on the people. Harry Bloy holds no power whatsoever in the city government and he is merely trying to organize a party that actually represents the people. Trust me, the day Lee and Garth declare themselves as members of the government under Corrigan is the day their political career or the day Corrigan decides to declare Burnaby a state under emergency. On the other hand, Gary Evans can say what he wants because if he wants to vote against the people who have elected him and side with the mayor, independently no less, then he should do what he wants. So he says running as an independent is out of question, then he is welcome to run as an BCA councilor under Corrigan, because that is possibly what he will have to do to win re-election when he gets expelled from TB.
The only person positioning for power is the councilor that has decided to vote with power. People can doubt how the leading TB councilors were able to achieve such high number of votes, but it without question a sign that BCA is losing it sense of reality as they cannot even comprehend why they could not beat TB councilors in terms of popularity and votes and it is predicted their votes will only decline as TB prepares itself to remove BCA from power.
Well yes and no, since the BCA was unusually weak in 2005. If the BCA can get back to its regular strength, Team Burnaby is headed for serious trouble since there aren't that many talented candidates available in Burnaby and who would want to run for a party that hasn't paid its debts off, and is influenced by an MLA?
"The parallel some attempt to draw between Harry Bloy and our mayor have failed to leave any impression on the people. Harry Bloy holds no power whatsoever in the city government and he is merely trying to organize a party that actually represents the people.
Sure, and the only reason he's doing that is to protect his own interests. There's no real need for him to do that as there are others within Team Burnaby now that can accomplish the same thing without the obvious optics.
Harry does not need to hold actual electoral power in city government, but it is well known that his close friends are the ones that are kowtowing to his wants and needs when it comes to influence.
It would be best for Team Burnaby to keep Harry or any other MLA out of the picture since it sets Team Burnaby up as a puppet party for Harry and that doesn't accomplish anything for the citizens, and it is not the reason why Team Burnaby should exist.
" Trust me, the day Lee and Garth declare themselves as members of the government under Corrigan is the day their political career or the day Corrigan decides to declare Burnaby a state under emergency."
A bit over the top, don't you think?
Techncially they are members of the city government. Sicne they were elected as councillors not members of a specific party caucus. There's no "partisan polarity" at the civic level as there is federally and provincially.
All members on council are in fact
"city government". They make decisions for the city, not their
political handlers.
"On the other hand, Gary Evans can say what he wants because if he wants to vote against the people who have elected him and side with the mayor, independently no less, then he should do what he wants."
Gary Begin was elected to represent the best interests of the city. He obtained the second highest volume of votes, certainly
much more than quite a few others in Team Burnaby.
And when did "the people" say they did not want Gary's decision? When was there an opportunity to discuss the computer system by the citizens in an open town hall with the Team Burnaby councillors? (an ordinary town hall, not a controlled members only meeting)
"So he says running as an independent is out of question, then he is welcome to run as an BCA councilor under Corrigan, because that is possibly what he will have to do to win re-election when he gets expelled from TB."
Kind of a dumb way to present a political party. Certainly not "team" based.
But what's to be expected from Team Bloy?
I think the previous blogger has pretty well stated the case against Gb.
He joined TB because, after losing the previous time, he wanted back on council. But his sense of loyalty didn't change. He is still the same old BVNPA guy who thinks he can do whatever he wants without any regard to those who worked so hard to get him there. He doesn't even respect his own signed contract.
The old saying used to be "fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice....."
I don't think TB will be fooled twice.
I think the previous blogger has pretty well stated the case against Gb.
He joined TB because, after losing the previous time, he wanted back on council. But his sense of loyalty didn't change. He is still the same old BVNPA guy who thinks he can do whatever he wants without any regard to those who worked so hard to get him there. He doesn't even respect his own signed contract.
The old saying used to be "fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice....."
I don't think TB will be fooled twice.
"I think the previous blogger has pretty well stated the case against Gb. "
Think the previous blogger has way too much time on his hands.
"He joined TB because, after losing the previous time, he wanted back on council."
News reports at the time was that Team Buraby was to be a unified group since there was vote splitting between the two previously. Thatw as reported in the Burnaby Now at the time. Both T/B and BVNPA agreed to that as it was reported in local Burnaby papers at the time. Read that online today.
"But his sense of loyalty didn't change. He is still the same old BVNPA guy who thinks he can do whatever he wants without any regard to those who worked so hard to get him there."
Guess the citizens who voted for him didn't matter at all, eh?
His vote result was pretty much as expected, people voted for him as a person, not because of some political hacks thinking they personally put him there.
Campaigning is always about the voter, never the political hacks.
"He doesn't even respect his own signed contract."
The signed contract ended when the election did, unless there was a notation in it that led the policy provisons within the "contract" to be valid beyond the day after the election was held.
Since government and policy conditions change over time, it's rather silly to have someone adhere to policies made in 2005 to current conditions in 2007. Even provincial and federal policies evolve between elections, and politicians have been known - even the BC Liberals - to turn 180 degrees.
Might als be said that perhaps if some candidates did not pay up their share of the financial load, they would be in violation too, if there was such a provision in it.
The BC Liberals tore up the HEU contracts when they originally said they would not.
The old saying used to be "fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice....."
I don't think TB will be fooled twice."
They don't need to be. They have enough fools and have been needlessly fooling around as it is.
Anyone who would vote 100% Team Burnaby slate would be a fool based on how Team Burnaby's bloggers are behaving thesethese days.
Is this still goin' on? Some Tema Burnaby bloggers should step back and calm down.
They are making a big deal out of nothing, since many votes in council aren't based on partisan policies, but rather what would be the best thing for a city.
Seems some people are getting worked up over nothing.
Get a life, Tema Burnaby people.
Let the councillors do what they figure is best. That's why they are there.
Is Team Burnaby trying to dictate to the councillors as to what they should do or not do?
Heck the members of provincial parties don't tell the MLA's what they have to do or not do.
This is really getting silly and is a bad reflection on Team Burnaby.
If there are Team Burnaby board members writing this junk, they should be removed immediately.
What Team Burnaby does is a reflection on the candidates, and its hardly professional right now.
Calm down and enjoy more important things such as hockey season.
Can the voters at large be convinced that TB members are in fact members of the Corrigan government as if they have any influence on the decision Corrigan makes? The answer is more than obvious when BCA's own members cant even have a say in the municipal affairs that have been dictated by the mayor. There certainly can be no political polarity when the council majority has decided to simply followed every single word spoken by our mayor, some in the same party as the mayor, and some shockingly not.
There is no question that TB wants to see themselves in the government come next year, but allowing members to vote against its own party will simply add negatives to upcoming campaign. Lee has been opposing BCA for quite some time and has gained TB's full confidence shall he decide to seek re-election. While receiving the second highest number of votes, Gary Begin is starting to lose the confidence of the party and in a democratic party, that is something that may easily lose him the right to be nominated, unfortunately.
But the election is still 12 months away, and it is certainly not too late to start acting as if he is not endorsing his mayor's re-election campaign. TB can only win with a slate of candidates that will give the voters impression that they will vote with the people and with a mayor that can bring change to the city as the citizens desire. Is Burnaby Citizens Alliance still an alliance for Buranby citizens? That is the question that the voters will have to decide 12 months from now.
Gary Begin has been the subject of bloggers over the past short while. Let's hope he can get through this period and get back on track. I think many members of TEAM would still like to see him as part of the change that is needed at city hall rather than as a prop to the mayor.
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