RIP Carole James's leadership, 2003-2007(?)
The pro-Gateway forces are dancing on the bridge decks tonight.
Carole James may have destroyed her party south of the Fraser with her transit before Gateway comments yesterday that appeared all over the press today. From the UBCM to the Bill Good Show, James was the subject of harsh criticism. Is the NDP finally going to mutiny?
Although Derek Corrigan at points in the past may have been a top contender for the job, things are looking different now. The largest city in B.C. with a pro-NDP mayor, by far, is Burnaby. As one of the few mayors willing to challenge the Liberal government, Corrigan has name recognition as good, if not better than most NDP MLAs. However, his positions are often Carole James's positions so there would not be much of a shift for the party, except for differences in popularity of James vs. Corrigan.
The real contenders, unlike last time, will come from within caucus. Mike Farnworth and Adrian Dix are the two most discussed names, but a second tier of potential leaders also exists in caucus - David Chudnovsky, Harry Lali, Maurine Karagianis, John Horgan, and Leonard Krog. In such a field, caucus support for an outsider mayor would be limited.
For the NDP, it would be the best of both worlds. A strong mayor fighting the province from the middle of Metro Vancouver (formerly GVRD) and a fresh face on the hustings in spring '09. A gateway to the leadership is unlikely for Corrigan and if he goes for it, the road will prove to be full of potholes.
Carole James may have destroyed her party south of the Fraser with her transit before Gateway comments yesterday that appeared all over the press today. From the UBCM to the Bill Good Show, James was the subject of harsh criticism. Is the NDP finally going to mutiny?
Although Derek Corrigan at points in the past may have been a top contender for the job, things are looking different now. The largest city in B.C. with a pro-NDP mayor, by far, is Burnaby. As one of the few mayors willing to challenge the Liberal government, Corrigan has name recognition as good, if not better than most NDP MLAs. However, his positions are often Carole James's positions so there would not be much of a shift for the party, except for differences in popularity of James vs. Corrigan.
The real contenders, unlike last time, will come from within caucus. Mike Farnworth and Adrian Dix are the two most discussed names, but a second tier of potential leaders also exists in caucus - David Chudnovsky, Harry Lali, Maurine Karagianis, John Horgan, and Leonard Krog. In such a field, caucus support for an outsider mayor would be limited.
For the NDP, it would be the best of both worlds. A strong mayor fighting the province from the middle of Metro Vancouver (formerly GVRD) and a fresh face on the hustings in spring '09. A gateway to the leadership is unlikely for Corrigan and if he goes for it, the road will prove to be full of potholes.
posted by Robert Burnaby at 11:08 PM
40 Comments:
Let's hope he takes Gary with him to the provincial NDP ranks. Gary has dressed up far too long as an alternative to the NDP at council. All he does is undermine his own group.
There's a few that have done a much better job undermining that civic party than Gary would ever be able to do.
The end of Carole? Nah, don't see it happening. Since dumping a leader with an election nearing and wasting resources on a leadership race has to be secure way to loose an election. Not going to happen.
That election nearing is a year and a half away.
Remember this is still 2007, not 2008.
Someone should resurrect the NPA. Team Burnaby has been beaten and bruised and now doesn't have any many left and actually still owe money.
Only was to go is dissolve it.
The NPA can easily be resurrected
if the desire is there.
Be there if it happens.
If it happens, be assured it would be run as a party for members not a party for a chosen few or an MLA wishes.
A few ex-NPAers know the crap that is going on in Team Burnaby.
Team Burnaby has gotten so bad now that who would want them to canvass a neighbourhood?
True, it is only 2007, however, it will take a defeat on a leadership vote at convention in November, which is highly unlikely at best to start with.
Following that, it will take at least 6 months, if not possibly longer, to have the leadership race. Then, this neophyte leader will have less than a year under their belt going into the election. Which means, they would probably perform worse than the current leader and make mistakes.
Its just not worth it, Carole has time and a good chance to do well in the next election. I strongly doubt the grassroots will disagree and seek to dump her.
" The NPA can be easily resurrected if the desire is there."
Isn't that what Gary is already trying to do? But will he show any more loyal there than in Team?
Don't have any idea what gary intends to do, but a civic party run for the wishes of one MLA certainly isn't the way to go.
If you want an answer, ask Gary.
He can be reached via City Hall.
Face the reality. Team Burnaby ended up as a disaster, and if it ends up being a party of Harry Bloy selected picks, it won't be going anywhere since the candidates are hand picked, and the campaign team is hand picked so why bother getting involved with it at all?
Carole James is the first politician I have heard speak about the necessity of more public transit and thinking about the future.
Why so many intelligent people are not out there expressing this same sentiment befuddles me or .... is it because public transit is inadequate, has long been seen as a mode of transport for lower class citizens, and people are just too conditioned to the use of an automobile.????
Myself, I got an electric bike. It is fabulous and I save over $20 a wwek on gas, no insurance and no emissions and.... I am nearing retirement.But for longer trips, public transit is frustrating because the buses are inadequate or not running on time but I refuse to contribute to the stupid amount of traffic and pollution caused by driving.
Planet earth to whoever. Campaign teams are always "hand picked". Campaign teams have never been chosen by democratic vote. I thought you would have known this.
When Gary runs for council with a few "hand picked" friends next time - he too will "hand pick" his camapign team. Put your oar in the water soon. it could be you.
Isn't Gary a closet NDP'er anyways.
"A few ex-NPAers know the crap that is going on in Team Burnaby."
What kind of crap, if you please?
Do your homework. If you think ther eisn't any crap going on in Team Burnaby, you don't belong in civic politics.
Look around. A dysfunctional board, they still owe money, and one idiot MLA thinks he can hand pick the candidates himself or insists (or based on the junk comments made earlier in this blog).
As for the idiot who thinks Gary is a closet NDPer, he's not and never has been. In fact he ran agianst the NDP a number of times.
What he does do, better or worse is look out for the interests of Burnaby rather than the interests of provincial politicians.
Every politician makes errors and Gary made just one.
There's a few T/B candidates in the past who have made far more worse errors.
Are we still at the point of trashing TB's or can we come back to the topic.
I have to disagree with the people who believe that Corrigan will back Carole James. It looks to me that NDP old timers are truly fed up with Carole James and her new centrist image with her SUV and everything.
Why would Mike Farnworth launch a mutiny against Carole James when it is obvious that he is the next in line for leadership in 2009 when NDP loses badly as BCL proves themselves right on "economy". If anything he is going to stop urban MLA's like Adrian Dix to come back to government again.
While I am sure Raj will gladly resign to let Corrigan win a by-election to lead the party in Victoria so a nasty mayoral by-election pitting Lee Rankin against NDP's, that is not likely going to happen as there is no chance that our mayor can summon enough support to take out Carole James.
So what happens next? If either of the Corrigans runs against these so called "weak" BCL MLAs, they should know that if NDP could not in 05, they will have no chance winning those ridings back in 09, especially when the anti-NDP faction in Burnaby getting smarter, especially on the federal front.
People contineut to make false claims that TB was a disaster when the fact remained that had the opposition not been united in 2008 and recruiting powerful council members, we would not force BCA into sucha slim minority. So will the opposition be united again in 2008/2009, if Corrigan continues to believe that he can cruise into another huge NDP victory, or for his wife, then he is dreaming.
"Are we still at the point of trashing TB's or can we come back to the topic.:
Let's get back to the topic
"I have to disagree with the people who believe that Corrigan will back Carole James. It looks to me that NDP old timers are truly fed up with Carole James and her new centrist image with her SUV and everything. "
Irrevalent. Corrigan's stance on Gateway has nothing to do with Jame's position.
Why would Mike Farnworth launch a mutiny against Carole James when it is obvious that he is the next in line for leadership in 2009 when NDP loses badly as BCL proves themselves right on "economy".
Has Farnsworth launched a mutiny?
Evidence?
Who ends up as leader is decided by the membership. It's well known that he is amongst those who would go after the leadership, but in the end it is up to him to decide.
"If anything he is going to stop urban MLA's like Adrian Dix to come back to government again."
The voters should stop Adrian Dix
from coming back to government again. The guy complains and does not come up with solutions and the NDP during his time did very little in regards to health care.
"While I am sure Raj will gladly resign to let Corrigan win a by-election to lead the party in Victoria so a nasty mayoral by-election pitting Lee Rankin against NDP's, that is not likely going to happen as there is no chance that our mayor can summon enough support to take out Carole James."
Not going to happen. Raj would want something.
"So what happens next? If either of the Corrigans runs against these so called "weak" BCL MLAs, they should know that if NDP could not in 05, they will have no chance winning those ridings back in 09, especially when the anti-NDP faction in Burnaby getting smarter, especially on the federal front. "
Not exactly, Sherlock. The NDP was
noticeably weak in 2005, and you're forgetting that they have been much weaker than in 2005 before and have come back.
"People contineut to make false claims that TB was a disaster when the fact remained that had the opposition not been united in 2008 and recruiting powerful council members, we would not force BCA into sucha slim minority."
Sure and one those who received a very high share of the vote makes an error in judgement so what does TB key people do? Decide to ruin his political career. Nice move genius.
"So will the opposition be united again in 2008/2009, if Corrigan continues to believe that he can cruise into another huge NDP victory, or for his wife, then he is dreaming."
If Corrigan is dreaming, then you're hallucinating.
Amazing that people come up with these hypothesis. Many including this one are laughable to say the least.
"Irrevalent. Corrigan's stance on Gateway has nothing to do with Jame's position."
It seems to me that Mr. Corrigan's stance on Gateway does have something to do with Carole James' position. If he were going to undermine her or try for the leadership, would he have taken such a hardline position on Gateway? He must know how popular the Gateway is south of the Fraser. Surely he would have been hedging his bets on Gateway so as to appeal to all those delegates from Surrey/Delta/langley ridings. I suggest he is staying put and his position on Gateway proves it.
"Sure and one those who received a very high share of the vote makes an error in judgement so what does TB key people do? Decide to ruin his political career. Nice move genius."
If Gary is so good let him run as an independent. There is not an ounce of loyalty in him. He even walked out on his old BVA because he thought there was a better chance to get elected in TB. Does he even live in Burnaby? I hear he is one of two people in TB who does not live on our city. I think the other is on school board.
"Irrevalent. Corrigan's stance on Gateway has nothing to do with Jame's position."
"It seems to me that Mr. Corrigan's stance on Gateway does have something to do with Carole James' position. "
It does not. Corrigan has been adamatly against Gateway from the start. James has been wishy-washy
until she decided her wrongful position on the subject.
"If he were going to undermine her or try for the leadership, would he have taken such a hardline position on Gateway?"
Irrevalent. This has nothing to do with his seeking the leadership.
Corrigan is very decisive in his
position on many things.
"He must know how popular the Gateway is south of the Fraser. Surely he would have been hedging his bets on Gateway so as to appeal to all those delegates from Surrey/Delta/langley ridings."
I doubt that. Otherwise he would have moderated his position, which he has not. What does that tell you?
"I suggest he is staying put and his position on Gateway proves it."
No shit, Sherlock. Congratulations.
You finally got something right.
"Sure and one those who received a very high share of the vote makes an error in judgement so what does TB key people do? Decide to ruin his political career. Nice move genius."
If Gary is so good let him run as an independent. There is not an ounce of loyalty in him. He even walked out on his old BVA because he thought there was a better chance to get elected in TB.
The BVA didn't exist. It was more of a unification of the BVNPA and TB at the time. Check your political history. A few decided to retain the BVNPA after a vote.
"Does he even live in Burnaby? I hear he is one of two people in TB who does not live on our city. I think the other is on school board.
Gary does live in Burnaby. He does
his community work here and lots more.
If in doubt, go and see him and ask him yourself.
Gary's name is on the voters list in south Surrey. I'm afraid that is way far for me to bother trying to go and see him.
Gary's name is also on the list in Burnaby.
Guess it's too much for you to see him after Council, isn't it?
One thing about loyalty, Sherlock.
It goes both ways.
FACT: Gary Begin has now taken on the evils of Gateway, has voted against it, and will loan his name to the Mayor of Burnaby in advertising against it.
FACT: You believe one single Liberal MLA controls who will run for TB next time round, who will be campaign manager etc etc.
QUESTION: Given Gary's oppostion to this major Liberal initiative, just how is Gary Begin going to get a nomination with TB next time?
ANSWER: He isn't - and why would he even want to.
"FACT: Gary Begin has now taken on the evils of Gateway, has voted against it, and will loan his name to the Mayor of Burnaby in advertising against it."
FACT: He would not loan his name.
His name would not appear on the ad.
SUPPLEMENTARY: If you read his explanation for voting, it was more to do with Gateway providing a better clear picture of what can
be provided to the City of Burnaby in regards to project enhancements,
etc.
"FACT: You believe one single Liberal MLA controls who will run for TB next time round, who will be campaign manager etc etc."
FACT: It's well known that Harry Bloy and his supporters has been manipulating TB since its beginnings.
"QUESTION: Given Gary's oppostion to this major Liberal initiative, just how is Gary Begin going to get a nomination with TB next time?"
ANSWER: The same way the other candidates do. By getting support from the membership. Gary has a long time service in the community, which would count for alot more than just supporting a one-time advertisement for a government project.
ANSWER: He isn't - and why would he even want to.
What makes you think he wouldn't get a nomination?
Prejudging the nomination outcome?
If this is how Team Burnaby will operate, why would anyone want to be a member of it?
Gary Begin did not get a council nomination last time - at least not from the membership vote. Members have a way of knowing what they are doing. Gary was shovelled onto the slate after the fact. And do you know who did it? Those same campaign people you have so little respect for. That's right - Harry's boys.
Now I have a question for you. Why oh why would they do it again? That's right "Sherlock", we're back to that old question of loyalty.
"Gary Begin did not get a council nomination last time - at least not from the membership vote. "
Sure. There was manipulation from within. He should have been nominated from the start since he
has done alot for the city, far more than let's say Ron Churchill
or Chiu had done.
Members have a way of knowing what they are doing. Gary was shovelled onto the slate after the fact.
Actualy not true. He was asked to
accept an empty nomination post from what I was told after one perferred candidate was taken out after being nominated. The reason for that taking out the other candidate had something to do with him running a porn website from what I heard.
And do you know who did it? Those same campaign people you have so little respect for. That's right - Harry's boys.
Yep they really know what to do, don't they. Follow Harry's orders.
Now I have a question for you. Why oh why would they do it again? That's right "Sherlock", we're back to that old question of loyalty.
Sure, and being stupidly blindly loyal to what Harry wants.
Wait for it to happen again in 2008.
No shit, Sherlock.
You sound like the wonderful guy I met once who claimed he had run 47 campaigns.
Someone was interested and thought "Hey this guy knows something". The guy was asked to name a few of the campaigns he had run.
But rather than answer, the guy just picked a fight, picked up his marbles and left. He then spent the next two years trashing everyone.
Have a good day. I'm sure this guy could not be you.
Enough of Team Burnaby.
back to the topic:
"Carole James is the first politician I have heard speak about the necessity of more public transit and thinking about the future."
Public transit will only work if the ridership is there. Public transit is very minimal east of 152nd Street in Surrey.
"Why so many intelligent people are not out there expressing this same sentiment befuddles me or .... is it because public transit is inadequate, has long been seen as a mode of transport for lower class citizens, and people are just too conditioned to the use of an automobile.????"
It's both (the mode of transport for lower class citizens doesn't wash since many working office peoplen use transit).
Public transit will only work if the people use it and it is linear and who would want to spend 2 hours on transit to travel a distance that takes 40 minutes by car?
One simply cannot go from Burnaby to Surrey and then to Richmond easily by transit.
"Myself, I got an electric bike. It is fabulous and I save over $20 a wwek on gas, no insurance and no emissions."
Great for the short trips. But would you ride it during cold wet days or what about snow? I rode a
10 speed bike during bad weather 5 km a day and it was a challenge to say the least.
"But for longer trips, public transit is frustrating because the buses are inadequate or not running on time but I refuse to contribute to the stupid amount of traffic and pollution caused by driving."
People will use transit if it is a good alternative, but other than that, people will use their cars.
Strange, but true. The Lower Mainland is spread out, and there's many places to go far and wide.
Public transit is best in Vancouver but inadequate across the Fraser River and next to nothing in eastern parts of Surrey and the growing areas of Langley.
The Gateway Project includes provision of rapid transit across the second Port Mann Bridge.
So is Gary on the voters list in South Surrey or Burnaby. Any answer other than Burnaby would be alarming.
Moving on to more important topics in this blog would be alarming.
I believe Gary is on the Burnaby voters list by virtue of his owning a rental property here.
For Federal and Provincial elections, the voters list is composed of one's home address. In Gary's case this has been South Surrey for more than a decade.
I hope this answers your questions.
To carry that further, the civic voters list is based on the Provincial Voters List as Burnaby like many places has not kept its own civic voter's list for sometime.
Someone is sure making a fuss over nothing. Gary votes for the cost of one ad simply to send a message to Gateway to get goin' on addressing some of the City's concerns while still supporting the overall project, and some idiot freaks out.
Sounds like in the case of Team Burnaby, the patients are running the asylum.
Let's get a clear answer here. Does the guy (Gary)live in Burnaby or Surrey? Surely this is not a tough question. Does anyone know the answer?
Here's a new concept to get an answer..
Why not go to Council Meeting and ask him directly before Council starts? Or ask him when you see him.
If you're nice to him, he might give you the answer.
Gary lives in Burnaby, but works in Surrey.
I dont think his opposition to Gateway is based on his tailpipe alone, I suspect he can readily afford the apx 1300 dollars in tolls.
Gary is likely at odds with Team Burnaby because TB is at odds with itself.
I know the guy who claims to have run 47 campaigns, he has, but he also used to sell whoopie cushions for a living (no joke).
I have found the quality of people surrounding TB and HB to be sadly lacking in quality, depth and experience. They continually make mistakes that a rank (not smell) amatuer would make on his first campaign.
He may have run 47 campaigns, but each one was likely as poorly done as the previous ones.
What is a whoopie cushion?
A rubber cushion with the face of Harry Bloy on it.
Gary lives in Burnaby, but works in Surrey.
So? Some people live in Burnaby and work in Delta.
I dont think his opposition to Gateway is based on his tailpipe alone, I suspect he can readily afford the apx 1300 dollars in tolls.
Based on 200 working days, that works out to about $6.50 a day, or $3.25 a trip, about the same as taking SkyTrain through two zones.
Hardly an expense for the elite.
Not factored in of course is a slight reduction in per diem tolling if a monthly or e-pass is bought.
Gary is likely at odds with Team Burnaby because TB is at odds with itself.
TB has always been at odds with itself since it's a clash of personalities ranging from those who are empty helmets who will do anything their masters want them to do to those who actually know how to think and want to fix TB before it ends up in the dumpster.
The empty helmet crowd seems to be the winning side unfortunately.
Why this perpetual ragging on Begin?
Instructions from Harry's sock puppets perhaps?
"TB has always been at odds with itself since it's a clash of personalities ranging from those who are empty helmets ........to those who actually know how to think and want to fix TB before it ends up in the dumpster."
Funny thing about all this. I thought Gary Begin and Barbara Spitz joined TB after (that's right - after)they and their pals were wiped out running under the BVNPA label. They ruined one label. They switched. And now they are doing their best to bury TB. Some people never change.
"Funny thing about all this. I thought Gary Begin and Barbara Spitz joined TB after (that's right - after)they and their pals were wiped out running under the BVNPA label. They ruined one label. They switched. And now they are doing their best to bury TB. Some people never change."
From what I heard it was a unification agreed to by BOTH the BVNPA and TB, since two parties individually would not win over the BCA and both TB and BVNPA agreed, from what I was told.
But in the end, TB reverted back to its power dominance led by a few who ran the old TB from what I was told, and still do.
Some people never change.
Sorry but from what I heard you have your facts wrong. Maybe we will never know, but I heard BVNPA members were invited to join TB like everyone else. Gary and BS came cause they felt TB could get them elected - unlike their own org. TB did get Gary back on council after his flame out in '02. It almost got Barb there also. I think the voters will be much smarter next time.
However I have a question here. Is it true they made sure the BVNPA is still around? They may want to move back pretty soon to where they and a few other non democratic types can all do what they want and hand pick their own candidates etc. etc. etc. I bet they will even want to hand pick a camapign team.
"Sorry but from what I heard you have your facts wrong. Maybe we will never know, but I heard BVNPA members were invited to join TB like everyone else."
Well from what I heard it was an agreement from both sides to join forces, sort of a unification of sorts.
"Gary and BS came cause they felt TB could get them elected - unlike their own org."
Both could get elected on their own. Gary placed second which isn't bad.
TB did get Gary back on council after his flame out in '02.
Actually that might not be true, 100%. Gary has quite a support base from what can be determined and the NDP was strong in 02.
"It almost got Barb there also. I think the voters will be much smarter next time. "
Sure. Especially when they find out Harry Bloy is hand picking candidates, or the voters will choose on the basis of person, not party.
However I have a question here. Is it true they made sure the BVNPA is still around? They may want to move back pretty soon to where they and a few other non democratic types can all do what they want and hand pick their own candidates etc. etc. etc.
Hmm seems that's coming from TB not from past BVNPAs. Wasn't it said a month ago that there was a movement to ensure Harry and his supporters choose the candidates over the membership at large? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.
"I bet they will even want to hand pick a camapign team."
If they do, hopefully it will be alot better than the collection of junk TB had.
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